I would like to submit a proposal to the membership

[MinusHD]

There's that word again, traditional. That's right. There should be room for people to discuss the traditional approach to wearing this traditional garment.

I agree! I don't have an issue with calling something "traditional". I suggested "Traditional Highland Wear" as a forum name option - which would be a new name for the existing forum which is already used to discuss traditional approaches to wearing a kilt with all its THCD-related variants. In fact renaming the existing forum would make it even more specific to the traditional style of dress as opposed to it's current description as a forum for all the various ways a person might wear a traditionally made kilt.

I think the word "tradition", which clearly evokes passion, will continue spark mild debate with regard to any question like: "is THIS traditional" or "is THAT traditional", in spite of the new THCD guidelines. Tradition is both old and new; both set and evolving... A moving target. I don't think my humor came across well with the in my little "here we go again..." moment toward the end of my last post. "Highland Event Wear" seems to be a more generalized way to say it, but that wording has it's obvious weaknesses as well.

So, I've gone back to review the descriptions of your "approaches" (Post #6 - seems like a long time ago!). Thanks for the reminder. I think we're basically on the same page, so we're still just debating the the labels at this point.

For me, "Neo"still works into the non-traditional (or modern) group, and "Theatrical" can still be grouped with historical. Re-aligning the three existing style forums would be preferred to a renaming and adding of additional forums. Will any rename/addition make everyone happy? after 141 posts in this thread I think we both know the answer to that. But structuring these style forums by approach (or general style of kilt dress) is a step in the right direction... if changes are made. I think I'm all done debating labels now . Thanks for engaging, Nathan.

[A Lenape Scot]

Steve I agree with your plan. I think we could all learn to live with that unless we want to pick knits; Which I don't have the patience for.

[Liam]

This has been a great thread, which highlights the many differences but mostly the similarities in our views. One thing that I have noted, is that the dividing line between what is Traditional and what is Modern, and what is Historic, is often related to the age of the person.

On another note to add to Steve's confession:

"As you know, I'm an Engineer. I deal best with facts and numbers. I don't do well with words that are not clearly defined."

I too am an Engineer.

Slainte...

[Carlo]

This has been a great thread, which highlights the many differences but mostly the similarities in our views. One thing that I have noted, is that the dividing line between what is Traditional and what is Modern, and what is Historic, is often related to the age of the person.

On another note to add to Steve's confession:

"As you know, I'm an Engineer. I deal best with facts and numbers. I don't do well with words that are not clearly defined."

I too am an Engineer.

Slainte...

I'm a librarian, imagine how much I would like to codify this, but sometimes we just have to accept that the world around us is not 100% codifiable and that there are some blurred lines.
Where we place the 5 yard Box-Pleats for example, they are historical, but have been revived and become part of the traditional world again, or are they modern.

[CMcG]

...
Where we place the 5 yard Box-Pleats for example, they are historical, but have been revived and become part of the traditional world again, or are they modern.

Low yardage, box pleated kilts (à la Matt Newsome) are a historical style that has been revived in the modern era. Whether they are worn as historical, traditional, or modern attire would depend on the rest of the outfit, but I think they could fit into any of those style categories. Viewed from the front, a tartan box pleat kilt looks pretty much the same as any other traditional kilt.

[Peter Crowe]

This has been a great thread, which highlights the many differences but mostly the similarities in our views. One thing that I have noted, is that the dividing line between what is Traditional and what is Modern, and what is Historic, is often related to the age of the person.

On another note to add to Steve's confession:

"As you know, I'm an Engineer. I deal best with facts and numbers. I don't do well with words that are not clearly defined."

I too am an Engineer.

Slainte...

I'd be interested to know (out of simple curiosity) in what ways you think a person's age often relates to how they think along traditional/modern/historical lines? I know my tastes have changed over the years although there are also threads of continuity going back to earliest childhood.

[Liam]

I'd be interested to know (out of simple curiosity) in what ways you think a person's age often relates to how they think along traditional/modern/historical lines? I know my tastes have changed over the years although there are also threads of continuity going back to earliest childhood.

My thoughts are that what your Grandfather wore and generations before him one considers "historic". What your father wore )or wears for the younger members here), one considers "traditional". What you wear youself is "contemporary" (I thought I'd through in another category to muddy the waters) and what your son wears is "modern".
But all of this is based upon your age - a perspective that changes throughout your own life time.

[Peter Crowe]

My thoughts are that what your Grandfather wore and generations before him one considers "historic". What your father wore )or wears for the younger members here), one considers "traditional". What you wear youself is "contemporary" (I thought I'd through in another category to muddy the waters) and what your son wears is "modern".
But all of this is based upon your age - a perspective that changes throughout your own life time.

Thank You Liam! I am not sure I agree with your generational divisions vis-a-vis the categories (traditional/modern/historic) but I take your general point about where you are in your life's journey colouring how one might see these things.

[Steve Ashton]

When I first started the "styles of kiltwear" forum sections they were done with dates. We defined Historical as anytime before the rein of Edward VII or what we call "The Edwardian Era".

The Traditional period dated from the Edwardian era up to about the late 1970's when much of kilt wear was standardized by the industry. This is when the large kilt wear houses started and most of the manufacturing began to centralize. This is about the time when of the things we think of as kilt wear took the form we know today.

The true Modern kilt wear era began with the kilt showing up on the internet.

In the very early days of X Marks most of the talk was about the new styles of kilt. Then the topics on X Marks changed and the distribution began to become more about the traditional.

I am seeing another slow shift today and I am trying to allow the forum to adapt to that change.

[Liam]

When I first started the "styles of kiltwear" forum sections they were done with dates. We defined Historical as anytime before the rein of Edward VII or what we call "The Edwardian Era".

The Traditional period dated from the Edwardian era up to about the late 1970's when much of kilt wear was standardized by the industry. This is when the large kilt wear houses started and most of the manufacturing began to centralize. This is about the time when of the things we think of as kilt wear took the form we know today.

The true Modern kilt wear era began with the kilt showing up on the internet.

In the very early days of X Marks most of the talk was about the new styles of kilt. Then the topics on X Marks changed and the distribution began to become more about the traditional.

I am seeing another slow shift today and I am trying to allow the forum to adapt to that change.

Steve... It is much like defining the difference between "Culture" and "Heritage". Culture is how people live today which is constantly changing. Heritage is our ancestors lived.
Cheers