Time for a New York State tartan?

[Brian K]

You're not understanding my point.

There are many Scottish organisations across NY; while the St. Andrew's Society of New York may be the oldest, the other groups may or may not be affiliated with them. That would be like claiming the Kansas City St. Andrew's Society speaks for all Missouri Scots because it is the oldest (founded in 1914) or the St. Louis groups speaks for the Springfield society because it is in the largest city in the state.

What about the NY Caledonian Club? The NY Burns Club? The St. Andrew's Society of the Adirondacks? Schenectady?

While united in a common mission, each is independent in terms of governance. You can't just contact one and expect instant recognition.

T.

Agreed, Todd. There are a plethora of organizations, and individuals, who ought to be naturals from whom seeking support for a project like this is essential. To assume that only one - even if it is a statewide body - need be consulted may cause more problems it would solve.

Brian

[beerbecue]

My point is that at least ONE should be contacted......

[Brian K]

My point is that at least ONE should be contacted......

Sure - we have to start somewhere!

[macwilkin]

My point is that at least ONE should be contacted......

And that was my point as well, but in a state such as New York, which I would daresay has a rather large "Scottish" population, just contacting one society, which does not officially represent the community isn't going to cut it.

T.

[beerbecue]

I think it only logical that one of the first to be contacted should be the St. Andrews Society of the State of New York, because regardless of how many smaller groups there may be in communities scattered across the state, this organization has members from across the state, and does consider itself the St. Andrews Society that represents the entire state....

there is a tartan background to their website - don't know if it is theirs or just some random image - or if they would propose this as the NY state tartan - no one has talked to them yet as far as I know

I think this whole exercise is moot if those in charge here don't at least attempt to make contact...

It makes no sense to argue about how many groups there are in the state, or to even have a vote on three designs that were done without the input of these bodies....



If this is going to really happen, then there has to be a start in contacting these groups, and I am simply arguing that the St. Andrews society that calls itself the St. Andrews Society of the the State of NY is a good first step....

Unfortunately, I emailed them and haven't heard a thing... perhaps snail mail or a phone call is a better way to go....

[macwilkin]

I think it only logical that one of the first to be contacted should be the St. Andrews Society of the State of New York, because regardless of how many smaller groups there may be in communities scattered across the state, this organization has members from across the state, and does consider itself the St. Andrews Society that represents the entire state....

there is a tartan background to their website - don't know if it is theirs or just some random image - or if they would propose this as the NY state tartan - no one has talked to them yet as far as I know

I think this whole exercise is moot if those in charge here don't at least attempt to make contact...

It makes no sense to argue about how many groups there are in the state, or to even have a vote on three designs that were done without the input of these bodies....



If this is going to really happen, then there has to be a start in contacting these groups, and I am simply arguing that the St. Andrews society that calls itself the St. Andrews Society of the the State of NY is a good first step....

Unfortunately, I emailed them and haven't heard a thing... perhaps snail mail or a phone call is a better way to go....

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I have never said you (or anyone else) should NOT contact this group, only that you're (rhetorically speaking) going to need to contact more than just one society to get wide-scale support from the NY Scottish community for the tartan.

Contact them AND contact the others.

t.

[Brian K]

I think it only logical that one of the first to be contacted should be the St. Andrews Society of the State of New York, because regardless of how many smaller groups there may be in communities scattered across the state, this organization has members from across the state, and does consider itself the St. Andrews Society that represents the entire state....

there is a tartan background to their website - don't know if it is theirs or just some random image - or if they would propose this as the NY state tartan - no one has talked to them yet as far as I know

I think this whole exercise is moot if those in charge here don't at least attempt to make contact...

It makes no sense to argue about how many groups there are in the state, or to even have a vote on three designs that were done without the input of these bodies....



If this is going to really happen, then there has to be a start in contacting these groups, and I am simply arguing that the St. Andrews society that calls itself the St. Andrews Society of the the State of NY is a good first step....

Unfortunately, I emailed them and haven't heard a thing... perhaps snail mail or a phone call is a better way to go....

I certainly agree that they're a good place to start, but I also think you shouldn't be surprised or disappointed if they do not respond, take a long time to respond, or say that they are not interested in (or actively oppose) our endeavors. They may be one of the ultra-traditional organizations where the members feel that the only tartan you should be interested in wearing is the one your father is/was entitled to wear. They may have other reasons not to support the idea of a state tartan. Of course, they may be enthusiastic in support and they may love whatever we choose. We just don't know, so there's no point in agonizing over it.

In any event, I think it's not at all unlikely that they have no interest in such a project. They've been around a long time and I've never heard of them proposing a state tartan. If they wanted one it probably would have happened by now and we'd not be having this discussion.

As far as input into the design/design choices is concerned, take a look at their tartan. It makes my eyes cross! I'd have a hard time making myself wear it even if it was the New York State tartan. If that's a sign of their taste in tartan I think I'll stick with our muddling and fuddling through the way we have. There are so many Scottish organizations in New York we'd probably never finalize a design if we asked for everyone's input. Someone has to take the bull by the horns, come up with a design and seek support.

Regards,

Brian

[Brian K]

OK, folks, in case you weren't aware, a thread with a confirming poll for a proposed NYS tartan has been started. Please vote again.