An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

[Detroitpete]

Jock,

Soldier on! 15 pages with a lot of it coming at an individual full on. Takes a hell of a man to stand that...and to stand it with grace and poise. Again sir, you set a fine example.

[Jock Scot]

Jock,

Soldier on! 15 pages with a lot of it coming at an individual full on. Takes a hell of a man to stand that...and to stand it with grace and poise. Again sir, you set a fine example.

Sorry old chap I am a bit busy at the moment. Thank you for your kind words, but I am expecting and invasion at any moment. You know how it is. Now was that a fog horn, or a didgeridoo?

[Tobus]

No one who crossed into this country through Ellis Island (some 12 million people) shared any of that heritage. It didn't even open until 1892.

Brilliant point!

My family history, from several branches, goes back to pre-Revolutionary times here in America. But for those families who came here recently, say, within the last 100 years, may not feel any ties whatsoever to historical American culture. It is not the culture of their ancestors.

In such cases, it is common to fall back on what they know. Which is the culture of the place from which they came. Despite many success stories of new immigrants whole-heartedly adopting their new culture as their own, it's not always easy for new immigrants to do that. Especially when the culture they are trying to adopt is still trying to figure out who or what it is! Talk about "playing at" being something... which is worse? For an immigrant to continue to be who he has always been and raise his children with the culture and values he knows, or to suddenly switch over to a new foreign (and even alien) culture?

We see this very strongly with immigrants from Asia, for example. Even after several hundred years, there are strong cultural influences from their native homelands (such as pockets like "Chinatown"). Are they "playing at being Chinese"? Or is it simply a matter of these people choosing to retain the culture they know and love?

There's a reason that Scottish immigrants kept strong ties to their native culture. And whilst it may be easy for those who are still in Scotland to flippantly say that those people should adopt their new culture once a generation has passed, I daresay that it could indeed be a case of them just "not getting it".

It's something to consider, anyway.

[BCAC]

I great puzzle for me is why you, and at least some other Scots, seem to care so much about the issue. It seems that the very idea that Americans hold the belief that as individuals our cultural heritage extends back to the homelands of our ancestors is offensive to you.

I will say this as politely as I can. Quite frankly I do not understand why anyone would presume to tell other people what they should value and what should be of interest and importance to them, so long as those beliefs cause harm to others. Does my thinking of myself as have a Scottish heritage (only one part of my genealogical family stew) detract from your well being in anyway?

Nope, doesn't detract from my well being one iota. It's not offensive at all. We're not trying to tell you what to do or how to think (we're not that pretentious), we're just trying to understand you people doing something that we just don't feel the need to do.

[Detroitpete]

Sorry old chap I am a bit busy at the moment. Thank you for your kind words, but I am expecting and invasion at any moment. You know how it is. Now was that a fog horn, or a didgeridoo?

Man the battlements! And no sir, I'm not seeking to manipulate my way into trying out some rather impressive newly hand tied streamers in the salmon waters you you tempt us with. Did I mention how impressive they were? Landed a 14 inch wild Rainbow in October on one of them

Back to the front.

[Bugbear]

BCAC, you asked a few posts back... I consider myself to be an American, and a Southwesterner.

[MT4Runner]

The only way to have a forum is to tolerate, and even encourage, different opinions. Without a diverse membership, you only have a flock!

I great puzzle for me is why you, and at least some other Scots, seem to care so much about the issue. It seems that the very idea that Americans hold the belief that as individuals our cultural heritage extends back to the homelands of our ancestors is offensive to you.

The poster quoted above you had some great advice.


Encouraging and tolerating different opinions runs the risk of encountering opinions you personally do not agree with. Ain't life grand?!

[Sir William]

Brilliant point!

My family history, from several branches, goes back to pre-Revolutionary times here in America. But for those families who came here recently, say, within the last 100 years, may not feel any ties whatsoever to historical American culture. It is not the culture of their ancestors.

Exactly my point.

My wife's entire family came over from Ireland in the early 20th century. In talking to them none show any interest in US history before that point. Unfortunately, this is an attitude I've encountered many times and many places across this country, but at the same time many are quite proud of their ethnic heritage.

[Peter Crowe]

Having followed this discussion since yesterday, I am beginning to ask myself what useful purpose is it serving.

I am reminded of Father Bill's cautionary note about feelings. I am also aware that what is stated on this medium does not have the non-verbal aspects of real conversation,

Jock Scot is a man who speaks his mind, sometimes in a fairly forthright manner (I happen to disagree with his views on this subject), but that said I think some people are attaching to them a significance and authority greater than they really have. Jock does not speak on behalf of all Scots (or all Highlanders). I am sure he would be the first to state that while he speaks only for himself, there are a significant number of people he knows who hold similar opinions.

However, he does not (he can not) represent the views of all the people of Scotland (nor I daresay all the Highlands and Islands alone).

I am beginning to feel he is becoming a whipping boy on this thread for many people's legitimate hurt at a body of opinion that while significant in Scotland is by no means representative of everyone or universal. Jock is a big enough man to defend his own position but he is getting treated quite harshly for having the honesty to state openly what others infer indirectly.

Identity can be complex for some people and we define our own in ways that are personal to us, and also reflective of our experience being part of a community. I know who I am, where I come from and where I stand as a husband, a father, and as a man. Wearing the kilt has real meaning and significance for me, but it is not the be all and end all of my life.

I think we all have to ask ourselves why is this garment important to me, and where does it place in my list of priorities. For me wearing the kilt has qualities that are both aesthetic and tied in to family sentiment and culture. However, my wearing or not wearing the kilt can not fundamentally alter the essence of who I am.

It certainly is not so important as to cause me to treat my fellow man in a manner inconsistent with my ethical beliefs or essential humanity.

[ccga3359]

So when do we leave? Also I don't drink scotch, eat haggis, or fish. I will, however, take pleasure in seeing Jock Scot*.








*go loony at the mere sight of me and my full-face rubber chicken sporran.