Traditonal vs. Historical

[Nathan]

I dont believe telling someone their kilt is too low is like telling them their fly is down. The height at which you wear your kilt is a matter of personal taste. If someone tries to degrade someone else's style choice by proclaiming it to be wrong, there is nothing valuable to learn from. Equating these two things clearly assumes that above the knee is correct, anywhere else is wrong. I don't believe that is the case at all.

Consult as many guides about kilt wearing as you like and you will see that there is a consensus of "somewhere between the mid knee and the top of the knee. Modern kilt wearing has military roots. if you wear your kilt hanging off your butt like hip hop jeans and hanging mid calf, you're doing it wrong. If you want to be an iconoclast and do it wrong to thumb your nose at the establishment, go for it, but just because you like something doesn't make it right, especially when you're dealing with something with traditional, historic and cultural significance like the kilt.

[Hopper250]

Consult as many guides about kilt wearing as you like and you will see that there is a consensus of "somewhere between the mid knee and the top of the knee. Modern kilt wearing has military roots. if you wear your kilt hanging off your butt like hip hop jeans and hanging mid calf, you're doing it wrong. If you want to be an iconoclast and do it wrong to thumb your nose at the establishment, go for it, but just because you like something doesn't make it right, especially when you're dealing with something with traditional, historic and cultural significance like the kilt.

Then I expect you wear your trousers at the same waist level as your kilt. It is the historical and traditional place to wear your trousers. And if you show me a picture of you doing otherwise I can tell you your wrong and need to change to be more traditional.

[adempsey10]

Consult as many guides about kilt liking as you like and you will see that there is a consensus of "somewhere between the mid knee and the top of the knee. Modern kilt wearing has military roots. if you wear your kilt hanging off your butt like hip hop jeans and hanging mid calf, you're doing it wrong. If you want to be an iconoclast and do it wrong to thumb your nose at the establishment, go for it, but just because you like something doesn't make it right, especially when you're dealing with something with traditional, historic and cultural significance like the kilt.

I dont care what the consensus is. On the traditional side of kilt wearing, there are set guidlelines. On the contemporary and fashion side of kilt wearing, traditions and consensi dont matter. The fashion of kilt wearing changes with the trend. Wearing a kilt a certain length isnt about being an iconoclast. Right now, V-neck t-shirts are a big trend among 20 somethings, are they iconoclasts because they decided they preferred that style over wearing standard round hole neck t-shirts? The fashion side of kilt wearing has nothing to do with tradition or historical or cultural significance.

If you come across someone attempting to dress in the traditional way and their kilt is mid calf, let them know that is not how it is done 'traditionally". If you come across a dude in sandals, a t-shirt and a kilt hanging mid-calf, you havent any right to say "That's wrong!" Because it isn't. You can give feedback as to why you dont think it looks good or whatever. But judging someone for their choice in style, especially on this forum, will not aid in making people feel welcome here. And I dont think the point of this forum was to create a place where everyone has the same attitudes and opinions towards kilt attire and weed out those who are different.

[Nathan]

Then I expect you wear your trousers at the same waist level as your kilt. It is the historical and traditional place to wear your trousers. And if you show me a picture of you doing otherwise I can tell you your wrong and need to change to be more traditional.

No, I wear my trousers the way they are constructed to be worn this season. Global western fashion which changes every season is quite different from a cultural symbol and national dress which changes very slowly.

I dont care what the consensus is... The fashion side of kilt wearing has nothing to do with tradition or historical or cultural significance.

Well, if you don't care about the things that are of value to others, why should they care about you being butt hurt about having your outfit criticized?

The Highland kilt is not just another fashion fad that will come and go with the whims of the fashion market. It is the identifiable cultural garb of the Scot.

Even when I wear my kilt in a contemporary fashion, I'm wearing it as a nod to my heritage. If others wish to emulate the garment of the Highlander, fine, but to appropriate it and then get offended when tradition bearers attempt to defend their tradition is a mile too far.

[davidlpope]

I dont care what the consensus is. On the traditional side of kilt wearing, there are set guidlelines. On the contemporary and fashion side of kilt wearing, traditions and consensi dont matter. The fashion of kilt wearing changes with the trend. Wearing a kilt a certain length isnt about being an iconoclast. Right now, V-neck t-shirts are a big trend among 20 somethings, are they iconoclasts because they decided they preferred that style over wearing standard round hole neck t-shirts? The fashion side of kilt wearing has nothing to do with tradition or historical or cultural significance.

If you come across someone attempting to dress in the traditional way and their kilt is mid calf, let them know that is not how it is done 'traditionally". If you come across a dude in sandals, a t-shirt and a kilt hanging mid-calf, you havent any right to say "That's wrong!" Because it isn't. You can give feedback as to why you dont think it looks good or whatever. But judging someone for their choice in style, especially on this forum, will not aid in making people feel welcome here.

This is why it would be great to have two separate subforums:

Fashion/Modern/Contemporary (whatever term is decided on)- no common consensus on how to wear the kilt. Wear it anyway you want to.

Traditional- in general accordance with the traditional way of wearing the kilt.

[artificer]

I still say that there is a gap in our coverage-

We've got the historical/ren-faire covered;

We've got "traditional" where the evolution of the subforum has given it a "well put together" and "worn in traditional fashion" sort of feel, where discussions of exactly where on the kneecap a kilt should fall abound.
Don't get me wrong, I love hashing out the details of a well assembled outfit.

We have a "contemporary" forum, which to me seems like a MUGS forum despite the fact the original description talks about contemporary fashion.

What I want to know is where does the casual dresser in a traditional kilt go to play? Won't someone think of the Tartan Army !
From the Paisley Tartan Army page on FB

The hoodie is by no means traditional, nor are the scrunched down white socks. But their kilts are all at a proper traditional height, and they don't look badly put together despite the
casual nature of their dress.

Where does this style belong?

Or this style from Stillwater?- The jacket has a traditional cutaway, but is updated in it's material, details, and fit compared to a traditional jacket.


It's also worn with a polo rather than a button down (either long or short sleeved).

Where is the home on X-Marks for these looks? Is it the "Contemporary" forum even though the kilts themselves are worn in a traditional fashion?

ith:

Edit: David got a post in under me while I was messing about with pix , but I'm going to leave this in place.

[davidlpope]

I still say that there is a gap in our coverage-

We've got the historical/ren-faire covered;

We've got "traditional" where the evolution of the subforum has given it a "well put together" and "worn in traditional fashion" sort of feel, where discussions of exactly where on the kneecap a kilt should fall abound.
Don't get me wrong, I love hashing out the details of a well assembled outfit.

We have a "contemporary" forum, which to me seems like a MUGS forum despite the fact the original description talks about contemporary fashion.

What I want to know is where does the casual dresser in a traditional kilt go to play? Won't someone think of the Tartan Army !
From the Paisley Tartan Army page on FB

The hoodie is by no means traditional, nor are the scrunched down white socks. But their kilts are all at a proper traditional height, and they don't look badly put together despite the
casual nature of their dress.

Where does this style belong?

Or this style from Stillwater?- The jacket has a traditional cutaway, but is updated in it's material, details, and fit compared to a traditional jacket.


It's also worn with a polo rather than a button down (either long or short sleeved).

Where is the home on X-Marks for these looks? Is it the "Contemporary" forum even though the kilts themselves are worn in a traditional fashion?

ith:

Choice #4- "Modern"- Traditionally constructed kilts worn in un-traditional ways. No attempt made to conform to traditional kilt-wearing practices.

[artificer]

Choice #4- "Modern"- Traditionally constructed kilts worn in un-traditional ways. No attempt made to conform to traditional kilt-wearing practices.

That would be my preference as well.

ith:

[Hopper250]

No, I wear my trousers the way they are constructed to be worn this season. Global western fashion which changes every season is quite different from a cultural symbol and national dress which changes very slowly.

Except that you still have trousers that are cut that way and are worn that way bought and sold every day. That you assume a single piece of clothing, bought and sold for everyday wear, has to follow certain rules while other pieces of clothing should follow fickle fashion, is down right silly. If I buy a kilt to wear everyday, we'll go with a tartan as that is what I prefer for fabric, and I choose to wear it in a low slung manner because current fashion says to, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just as you wear trousers at your hips aren't wrong even though tradition says that you should wear them around your navel (worn that way from 1780s-1940s and beyond). You can't seperate everyday clothes from fashion, just costume/reinactment.

[Grizzly]

I dont care what the consensus is. On the traditional side of kilt wearing, there are set guidlelines. On the contemporary and fashion side of kilt wearing, traditions and consensi dont matter. The fashion of kilt wearing changes with the trend. Wearing a kilt a certain length isnt about being an iconoclast. Right now, V-neck t-shirts are a big trend among 20 somethings, are they iconoclasts because they decided they preferred that style over wearing standard round hole neck t-shirts? The fashion side of kilt wearing has nothing to do with tradition or historical or cultural significance.

If you come across someone attempting to dress in the traditional way and their kilt is mid calf, let them know that is not how it is done 'traditionally". If you come across a dude in sandals, a t-shirt and a kilt hanging mid-calf, you havent any right to say "That's wrong!" Because it isn't. You can give feedback as to why you dont think it looks good or whatever. But judging someone for their choice in style, especially on this forum, will not aid in making people feel welcome here. And I dont think the point of this forum was to create a place where everyone has the same attitudes and opinions towards kilt attire and weed out those who are different.

As a self considered traditional kilt wearer I completely agree with you. You are not attempting a "traditional style" so perceived rules do not apply to contemporary wearers of a kilt like garment.

Just a small point but as far as I know there are no set rules for "traditional" just .. well......tradition, ie. that's how it's been done for generations so that is how we do it. By definition contemporary does not mean traditional therefore there are no rules to be broken. Contemporary is a "look" or a style prevalent as at today, the only person you need to justify that too is yourself. If you ŵant to wear a kilt at half mast then that is totally your choice and traditionalists and I include myself in that should respect your right to do so. Whatever we may privately think. As an example many youths today wear jeans about halfway up or down their backside, a ridiculous look IMHO, but if that's what they want to do, then fine it's up to them. I can't help but think though that its not a good look, I think this is more of a generation thing, as a youngster any new clothes had to be kept for Sunday best and looking smart was considered polite and the sign of good decorum. Times however have changed so have fashions and conceptions of what is considered acceptable as a standard form of dress.