Wearing the kilt in Scotland

[Jock Scot]

What you decide to do Nathan is entirely your choice. What those in the rest of the New World decide to do is also entirely their choice. What people decide to do in Scotland is entirely their choice too and in my experience, backed up by interesting observations from St Andrews, many in Scotland do not think the way you do. I am not saying its right or wrong for any of us, what I am saying in answering a very reasonable question and having a very interesting and civilised discussion that there are, whether we like it or not, two very distinct schools of thought over this. Surely it never hurts to be aware of differing opinions, after all it does help international understanding and does perhaps smooth international travel by being aware of differing views, even if we may wish for it to be otherwise.

[Lodrorigdzin]

What you decide to do Nathan is entirely your choice. What those in the rest of the New World decide to do is also entirely their choice. What people decide to do in Scotland is entirely their choice too and in my experience, backed up by interesting observations from St Andrews, many in Scotland do not think the way you do. I am not saying its right or wrong for any of us, what I am saying in answering a very reasonable question and having a very interesting and civilised discussion that there are, whether we like it or not, two very distinct schools of thought over this. Surely it never hurts to be aware of differing opinions, after all it does help international understanding and does perhaps smooth international travel by being aware of differing views, even if we may wish for it to be otherwise.

Someone who studied Japanese and spoke it at a high level once told me that he affected a foreign accent on purpose, because in his experience, people reacted very negatively to a non-Japanese without an accent.

Would there be a way to wear a kilt in such a way that it isn't perceived primarily as "Scottish"?

[CeilidhDoc]

You are giving me Deja vu all over again Jock, lol.

This was pretty much the way my conversation went nearly 20 years ago.

I'm not sure that I can answer for all Americans or attempt to represent them so I can only really answer for myself. If records existed that went all the way back to "mitochonidrial Eve" and folks could trace their heritage accurately that far back, perhaps we would be identifying with a culture far further back in time. As it is for me, the oral and documented history of my family only goes back as far as Scotland and then ends. So if I want to attempt to show respect to those from whence I came, my notions of doing so center on Scotland.

If I had been born in Scotland but knew my family was from elsewhere, I might be one of the Scots who rents a kilt for certain special occasions because it is the thing to do but would not have identified it with a part of my heritage per se.

As far as donning a berret and such I suppose for me that depends. Various cultures have national dress that is more or less alive and in use in the modern period. One thing that is less common with many forms of national dress is the coupling of 1) specific family / Clan patterns and 2) a history of the garments being actively suppressed by another nation or culture in the way highland attire was at one point. Perhaps I am ignorant about the traditional garb of other places on the globe, but it would seem to me that there is something legitimately different when those things are considered together that makes wearing highland tartan attire more identifiable with one's family and perhaps more pride inspiring because after being kicked out all those years ago now I can finally do what some of my ancestors could not do without danger to their lives and that sort of thing.

This is vague of course but I am doing my best to sum up where there might be some differences in wearing a kilt vs a berret as I am not aware of berret patterns associated with specific families, or of berrets being suppressed by another nation at any point. Maybe I am wrong. But If I'm not, then while your point is valid and well taken, I also am not sure it is an apples to apples comparison, and that's where things get tricky.

To specifically answer the question though, I doubt the French would be impressed. My wife is half French and we visit her family in France frequently. (Note how I just said that quite naturally: "My wife is half French." She is born of a mother who was born in France but she herself was born in the USA, yet from the American perspective this is a very natural way to describe the situation, although I suspect from the Scottish perspective it is nonsense--she is clearly just American!)

Cultural differences become so deeply etched into our psyche it is hard to step outside them at times. On the one hand that is part of the fun of experiencing new cultures. On the other hand, these types of things have been known to start wars from time to time.

What I do know is that I would hate to offend any Scot with a genuine attempt at paying respect to my ancestors, which is why I am on Xmarks to begin with.

And do know that your opinions are important to me and I value them highly. But getting back to the topic of the thread, it is important to put all these things out in the open for people to consider before they go kilt-clad in Scotland. As my own experience (which I will have to elaborate upon later as I mentioned above) shows, doing it without extreme care in certain scenarios can put one in harm's way in extreme cases if one is not careful. But by and large, most seem to report positive experiences here on XMTS. I suspect our experiences are biased toward the positive as those here on the forum are those who are willing to put in the extra effort to "do it right" which I think minimizes the chances of problems. But of course when I think I may be doing it right, the Scot next to me may well be thinking I am (perhaps quaintly if I am lucky) doing it wrong!

Slàinte!

[Jock Scot]

CeilidhDoc..

Yes indeed we would consider that your wife was an American, but of course as we all know, we all have to have come from somewhere. So should I be lucky enough to meet her and in the course of time, perhaps quite a lot of time (several years), we may be just getting around to learning about her ancestors! Its our way of doing things.

I think regardless of what the Scots may think, it is my hope that good manners will prevail when visitors are encountered. On the whole it seems that this happens pretty successfully, which is good. There are though, stories where it does not happen and Steve the owner of this website tells of encountering a distinct atmosphere whilst visiting Scotland and that is not good.

Even my new found American friends who would not in any way be deep into Scottishness, noticed the raised eyebrow and tight lips of his hosts. That is sad and should not happen with our visitors, particularly in the Highlands where we pride ourselves on our hospitality traditions and I can only be very sorry for it happening. But it does help the visitor, I think, to be aware of local feelings and temper their undoubted enthusiasm just a tad, or to be prepared to shift position when prudent. This is where these realistic discussions are so helpful, I think.

[CeilidhDoc]

I completely agree.

*rummages to find 1) Quaich and 2) Bottle of Laphroaig 18 year*

Slàinte!

[Nathan]

What you decide to do Nathan is entirely your choice. What those in the rest of the New World decide to do is also entirely their choice. What people decide to do in Scotland is entirely their choice too and in my experience, backed up by interesting observations from St Andrews, many in Scotland do not think the way you do. I am not saying its right or wrong for any of us, what I am saying in answering a very reasonable question and having a very interesting and civilised discussion that there are, whether we like it or not, two very distinct schools of thought over this. Surely it never hurts to be aware of differing opinions, after all it does help international understanding and does perhaps smooth international travel by being aware of differing views, even if we may wish for it to be otherwise.

Fair enough, and I was simply engaging in the reasonable conversation expressing the notion that sometimes one's school of thought can be built on ignorance of not just the perspective and opinion of the other, but on the experience and life of the other.

Every time you mention all new world Scots not being Scots, I'll be here to correct you. Note, I did not say disagree with you. A million people can decide that water is poison but that doesn't necessarily make it so. By the ethno-cultural definition of the word, I am a Gael. I am a MacDonald. I am a Canadian Scot, yes - but I am not a non-Scot, not a wannabe etc...

I am glad you warn the forum of the closed minded thinking we may encounter when traveling. That is valid, useful and appreciated. I'm just hopeful your mind might be personally opened to the facts of the matter if I demonstrate their self-evident truth enough times.

Slainte Mhath (Good Health),

Nathan

[TheOfficialBren]

@Jock Scot
I almost get the impression that *if* an American were to wear the kilt in Scotland (particularly in the Highlands) that one might want to take a minimalist approach (fitting since peraonally I seldom fuss much over my kilted attire, I just wear it and get on about my day).
I also get the impression that paying attention to how the locals go about this sort of thing and taking a cue from the local customs might behoove the travelling American.

[not necessarily directed toward anyone]

I'm honestly still on the fence with wearing my kilt in Scotland. I wouldn't expect native Scots to understand my opinion any more than I understand theirs. I owe no one an explanation or justification nor am I entitled to validation. To assume otherwise is a bit daft!

Will I wear my kilt when I visit Scotland? Probably not, to be honest...but I'll pack it just in case an appropriate occasion arises.


Edited to add: I would wear my kilt on Cape Breton Island or anywhere else in Canada without hesitation. Why? Who knows. Maybe it's because I'd still be on North American soil...

[SeumasA]

This last few pages has made for an interesting discussion.

I personally have not taken my kilt to Scotland, but that's as much from a desire to travel as lightly as possible as anything else. After reading through this, I'm not sure that I would take it in the future, unless I had a specific event I was attending, where it was expected attire. I tend to dress casually, although I will dress up if the occasion calls for it. When I travel I try not to stand out as a tourist, although I may visit some 'touristy' places. I try to blend in as much as possible. For some, that's not even a consideration.

[Ron Abbott]

Hmmm......

Thinking about this a bit more. In fact I don't think even a smirk would appear on the faces of the locals if those from the new world wore a kilt in Scotland......if it was just that and a sporran, hose etc. Perhaps with a plain jumper and a pair of brogues/wingtips.

I think it's often the way that they dress in the kilt not the kilt wearing itself.

The clan belt buckle, the clan kilt pin, the clan tartan tie, the clan cap badge, not forgetting clan tartan flashes, in fact clan bloody everything!

The jacket covered in wee badges of every highland games they've ever been to as well as even more clan badges....

And when it's worn with a checked glengarry or balmoral perhaps with some plant life stuck in it, we are well into the realms of brigadoonery as far as the natives are concerned.

Then you've got the wife, typically with a small clan badge stuck somewhere or other, carrying a bag with 'Highland Tourist Tat Shops Ltd' on it, a tartan tam on her heid, a tartan shawl over her shoulders and you can perhaps get where I'm coming from.

Maybe not quite the same but think of Brits on holiday buying and wearing cowboots, belt buckle, the string tie and a stetson in the middle of New York City. Sort of cringe worthy.

I've said it before, it's not just folks from the new world that I've seen dressed in a manner that makes me smirk and cringe at the same time.....you just have to see Scots going to a wedding in their kilt rental shop gear to do the same. Sometimes that's even more cringe worthy. I'm not sure what the 'in' tartan is at the rental shops just now, but I just remember when Dress Gordon, Hunting Stewart and Royal Stewart were all the rage. You could spot the rental gear a mile off.

[sailortats]

@CeilidhDoc @Jock Scot
I would like to thank the two of you for a most informative and civilized discussion. I feel that I now understand Jock's way of thinking much better than before but, sorry Jock, I tend to agree more with CeilidhDoc's ideas. It is a cultural thing and I fully understand that it is something that we can never expect to agree on. But we can certainly disagree in a very respectful manner as you two gentlemen have eminently proven.