The Scottish Wildcat Tartan thread: conceived here on X-Marks!

[creagdhubh]

Cat people?

[Terry1948]

Alan and McMurdo, I have some questions, and maybe I have overlooked the answers in the thread. I have been reading over the post by The Wizard, and realized that there were gaps in my knowledge of the project.

1. At the end of the day, who owns this tartan design and who will control how it is woven, who weaves it, and where the proceeds go? In other words, is the design being donated to a specific charity for that charity to make the decisions, after the first run of fabric?

2. When registered with the Scottish Tartan Authority, it is my understanding tartans have a designer name. Is that going to be McMurdo, or is this being considered an Xmarks group effort? (I am not denigrating all the work by McMurdo, but there is so much input from members in this thread, it is obvious to me, at least, that a "committee" is designing it.)

[Alan H]

Some good questions are put up, here.... let's see what I can come up with, without, honestly, having thought them through very much.

Rule # 10... Well, I tried hard to stay away from "soliciting funds". I've thought about this issue quite a bit! When it comes to the marketing stage, my hope was to say "If you like this tartan, go to Scotweb and buy it"....or," if you like this tartan, go to Knockando and buy it" understanding that a percentage of the proceeds will go to efforts to help the Wildcats. In other words, there would be no direct solicitation of money on X Marks the Scot. My idea was to keep it more or less on a level with any posts about the Capercaillie tartan.

Should I not post any pictures or comments about my Capercaillie tartan kilt, because 10% of the sales of that fabric go to the Royal Society for the Preservation of Birds, for habitat preservation for the birds? I know, I know, the two things aren't exactly comparable. A picture thread saying "Here's my capercaillie tartan kilt, I love it!" Is a lot different from a two-month long thread on designing a tartan. Still, I feel like the principle applies.

Registering of the tartan: Yes, I was going to pony up the fee to register the tartan. That was my intent all along, I just hadn't got 'round to telling everybody that. Since you need a swatch of cloth to register, that's why I was communicating with some hand-weaver friends about getting a couple of setts done up. Just as an update, my two hand-weaving friends, who've seen earlier versions of the tartan, were put off by its complexity. I also have a contact with a local woman who has an electric, small loom and I'll be asking her if she'd be up for creating a bit of fabric that's a couple of setts in width and length, to send to the STA.

Ownership of the tartan. Truth is, I hadn't really thought about this until just the other day when if finally occurred to me. First off, NO, I'm not considering TM'ing the sett under my own name. NO, I won't claim ownership of the tartan. I trust that McMurdo won't either, though of course I can't speak for him. Just off the top of my head, and this is me just thinking as I write, it seems a good idea that the ownership should be given to Wildcat Haven.

Producing the tartan: Wildcat Haven is a three or four person operation. I hear from Paul every 3-4 days because he is so busy "out in the field" doing work for the Cats...public awareness, trapping and neutering feral housecats on the peninsula, and so on. They don't have the manpower resources to create a tartan, guide it through the production phase, and market it. So I figured to do that for him.....with help, of course.

Money. I have thoughts and facts and numbers that I can discuss about price, money, publicity, how much goes to the Haven and so on, but since I have shied away from discussion money in this thread since Steve sent up his first warning flag, I hesistate to do so, now. If Steve and or a few of the mods give me the OK to discuss money in this thread, I'll write breakdown of the funds, AS PER MY BEST GUESS AT THIS TIME. Suffice it to say that a 30 yard order will generate more than $75 for the Cats, and once the first order is done, which IMHO was merely to create garments which could be used for more publicity, there would hopefully be more orders that came in, and more cloth woven. That said, I've been upfront with Paul at Wildcat Haven that the actual volume of cash generated bythis will be small. Howver, the publicity could be relatively enormous.

UPDATE: I spoke with the members of Clans Chattan, MacKintosh and MacPherson at the Pleasanton Highland Gamaes yesterday. Honest truth, the ladies in the Clan Chattan tent could obviously have cared less. I don't wantto go into details but the interaction was very odd. The Clan MacPherson hostess was polite and mildly interested, but my gut feeling is that the information I gave her will not make it much beyond her own notebook. However at the Clan MacKintosh tent, Meredith MacKintosh, who happens to be on the board of Clans Chattan, was very interested, and I believe that information about the project was communicated to the Board of Clan MacKintosh at their AGM,which happened at Pleasanton, this year. Hopefully, the Clans Chattan will hear about the project through Meredith.

[Alan H]

I know that I haven't addressed every concern that been expressed in the last few days, but Joan says it's time to get to work washing the windows and cleaning the house so you'll all have to wait until this evening!

[unixken]

Registering of the tartan: Yes, I was going to pony up the fee to register the tartan. That was my intent all along, I just hadn't got 'round to telling everybody that. Since you need a swatch of cloth to register, that's why I was communicating with some hand-weaver friends about getting a couple of setts done up.

Actually, you can register the design with the STR, without a swatch, and then send a swatch after the first run has been woven. Alison will want a swatch large enough to represent one full sett (about 8x9" ought to do it.)

Ownership of the tartan. Truth is, I hadn't really thought about this until just the other day when if finally occurred to me. First off, NO, I'm not considering TM'ing the sett under my own name. NO, I won't claim ownership of the tartan. I trust that McMurdo won't either, though of course I can't speak for him. Just off the top of my head, and this is me just thinking as I write, it seems a good idea that the ownership should be given to Wildcat Haven.

Since the registration details allow for any comments describing the tartan, there is no reason that the selected organization can't be the registered "owner" of the tartan, and the comments include a statement of "Designed by: So-and-So."

[Theyoungkiltman]

So imho the optimal solution is that wildcat haven gets the ownership of the tartan, with the provision that Alan H will be the marketer, seller and have the weaving rights. This ensures that the issue of wildcat haven not doing anything with it is non-existent. As Alan H said, wildcat haven is a small operation and does not have the capability to contract-weave, market and sell the tartan.

[Alan H]

I don't want to be the marketer, seller or have weaving rights. I want there to be NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER in anybody's mind, that I do not stand to make one red cent on this project. In fact, the project will cost me whatever the tartan registering fee is, at the STA. This thread has been flagged, and in the flag it was apparent that at least someone feels that I'm going to pocket 90% of the profits and run off to Jamaica with it, or some damn thing. I have to say that the implication makes me want to punch somebody in the nose, but .... whatever..... the thread has been flagged. The mods have a process in place to deal with this. Let's let that process run it's course.

I have made a proposal to the moderators about the thread in regards to rule 10. Let's all wait and see if their decision is that it violates XMTS rule 10. If it does, then those of us who are interested will take the discussion off of X Marks and I will attempt to minimize any suggestion of X Marks the Scot involvement in the process, to the best of my/our ability. Of course, the discussion started here, and we can't really make that seem as if it never happened, but perhaps what must be done is distance the Tartan from X Marks the Scot. Then again, maybe not!

Let's see what the mods have to say.

Alan H

It's a Holiday weekend here in the USA so it might be a couple of days before the decision is made.

[Theyoungkiltman]

I don't want to be the marketer, seller or have weaving rights. I want there to be NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER in anybody's mind, that I do not stand to make one red cent on this project. In fact, the project will cost me whatever the tartan registering fee is, at the STA. This thread has been flagged, and in the flag it was apparent that at least someone feels that I'm going to pocket 90% of the profits and run off to Jamaica with it, or some damn thing. I have to say that the implication makes me want to punch somebody in the nose, but .... whatever..... the thread has been flagged. The mods have a process in place to deal with this. Let's let that process run it's course.

I have made a proposal to the moderators about the thread in regards to rule 10. Let's all wait and see if their decision is that it violates XMTS rule 10. If it does, then those of us who are interested will take the discussion off of X Marks and I will attempt to minimize any suggestion of X Marks the Scot involvement in the process, to the best of my/our ability. Of course, the discussion started here, and we can't really make that seem as if it never happened, but perhaps what must be done is distance the Tartan from X Marks the Scot. Then again, maybe not!

Let's see what the mods have to say.

Alan H

It's a Holiday weekend here in the USA so it might be a couple of days before the decision is made.

Just to be clear, what I meant by that is that you would have full control over all those aspects while the wildcat haven gets all profits.

[McMurdo]

Just to follow what Alan is saying. I do not expect nor have I ever thought of profiting from this tartan or design. I simply started designing it because Alan put the call out and there were no other takers. While I am proud of the design I never in a million years started doing it to get rich.

[Alan H]

I have to say, McMurdo, that if you thought the path to fame and riches lay through designing tartans....ummmm... I have bad news for you!