The Importance of knowing the Rules of Kilted Fashion

[DWFII]

It seems that these conventions (like most fashion trends) often have their roots in the merchants that sell and rent kilts, both in the UK and elsewhere. I would suspect that this probably was true in the past as well. Just as a somewhat neutral example, I may hold the view (learned from this forum) that belts don't go with waistcoats when wearing a PC, but if the catalogs keep showing them worn together, and kilt shops keep providing them with PC rental packages, then eventually this view may become the minority view, and so it goes, fashions change.

It bear repeating (post #129):

Those of us who do admire and wish to wear highland dress not only owe it to history but to the Scottish culture not to thumb our noses at that culture and those conventions.

especially not in pursuit of, or at the behest of those who pursue, the Yanqui dollar....

IMHO

[Abax]

You raise some interesting points.

With all due respect, perhaps there is another misunderstanding in this thread. The Scots present are not critiquing the wearing of the kilt by non-Scots.

And yet that is precisely what many people on this forum - outside of Scotland - are asking for. And then some people read the answer and try to apply it to their situation, not realizing that they may have different goals in wearing a kilt and everything that goes with it.

This thread is about “kilted fashion” and what we are trying to get across is that the Scottish kilt is just a part of the Scottish National Dress;

In my vernacular, "just" would diminish what follows. I think I'm correct in saying that Scots are proud of the kilt.

if one wants to wear Scottish National Dress (including the Scottish kilt) there are customs/conventions to be followed.

Perhaps that pride justifiably leads some to protect their national dress from change by external forces. I could understand that (if it's true).

It is not the kilt we are referring to, you see, but to its accompaniments and the manner of wearing them.

The quote above is one of the the most important distinctions I've read in this thread yet. Good!

It could not and cannot evolve outside Scotland and still be called Scottish National or Highland Dress.

But wearing a kilt outside of Scotland *will* evolve, and many people will confuse that with Highland Dress.

When a question is asked about how that dress is worn today – the conventions -- it is not possible for the answer to be expressed in terms of current custom or fashion in New South Wales, or Ontario, or Nebraska, or Cape Town, or Amsterdam -- but only in Scotland.

The tail does not wag the dog.

You've made it clear for me that there are really three different discussions going on here:

1) Highland Dress in Scotland.
2) Emulating Highland Dress outside of Scotland.
3) Everything else about how kilts are worn. This category is broad not to be facetious, but to more accurately describe something like "How kilts and their accompaniments are worn outside of Scotland."

I'm in the last category. Perhaps I'm diluting the national dress of Scotland, but then I'm not very likely to wear a kilt there casually (I'll be visiting in the next few years).

I hope there's room on XMarks for all the different categories of people I've described. Conventions for wearing the kilt seem likely to vary based on the goals and perhaps even the location of the person wearing it.

Abax

[CDNSushi]

Just looked at the calendar. The next lunar equinox is March 20th. Therefore, the third Thursday following that is: April 9th.

I am very much looking forward to Rocky posting a picture of himself wearing the Hawaiian shirt, paisley tie, Loud MacLeod kilt with rainbow striped socks and Birkenstocks with a fanny pack.

The mullet wig isn't necessary though... Don't worry about that.

JD

The only rule I follow is a self imposed one...

I must wear the following every third Thursday after the lunar equinox:

a bright color hawiian shirt
Paisley Tie
Buchanan Modern OR 'Loud MacLeod' tartan
Rainbow striped socks
birkenstocks
a "Fanny Pak" instead of a sporran
Mullet wig

The ladies come running.

[sarcasm mode off]

[davedove]

...

You've made it clear for me that there are really three different discussions going on here:

1) Highland Dress in Scotland.
2) Emulating Highland Dress outside of Scotland.
3) Everything else about how kilts are worn. This category is broad not to be facetious, but to more accurately describe something like "How kilts and their accompaniments are worn outside of Scotland."

...

I hope there's room on XMarks for all the different categories of people I've described. Conventions for wearing the kilt seem likely to vary based on the goals and perhaps even the location of the person wearing it.

Abax

You are correct about the different categories. I was just thinking along those lines myself.

If one is trying to dress as a Scotsman would (or more specifically, a Highlander), especially a formal outfit, then there are certain standards and expectations, as have developed over the years.

If one is just trying to put together a good looking kilted outfit, then only the standards of appearance and good taste apply.

There are, of course, some overlaps between the two categories, but they are two different standards.

[Bugbear]

* As Chopin plays in the background: *

I'm tired. I just wanted to understand or better have a feel for what the formal attire is with the kilt, and why it is that way. At some point, one has to stop listening to the conflicting advices; tune out the battle, if you will.

* I reread all of my posts in this thread; you are right, Panache. *

[Panache]

* As Chopin plays in the background: *

I'm tired. I just wanted to understand or better have a feel for what the formal attire is with the kilt, and why it is that way. At some point, one has to stop listening to the conflicting advices; tune out the battle, if you will.

Ted,

Frankly I have not understood what the majority of your posts in this thread have contributed.

This is a thread about the importance of knowing the conventions of traditional Highland attire, showing respect for the opinions of those that are knowledgeable about this matter, and the importance of using that knowledge to make an informed decision.

That is it.


To All,

I would like to show an example of how knowing the traditions does not mean being bound by them.

Take Howie Nicholsby of 21st Century Kilts.

This is a gentleman who completely understands all the conventions of Highland Attire. Using that knowledge he is moving forward and creating his own take on kilts and kilted fashion.

His kilts and kilt outfits are an evolution of Highland attire.

Some I really like, some I don't.

But he uses both his knowledge and imagination to create his own look.

I think that this is what we X Markers do all the time.

I just wanted to acknowledge the importance of the "staunch traditionalists" to our forum.

Cheers

Jamie

[Phogfan86]

More reasoned, rational, calm posts like that, young man, and you'll be drummed off this thread!

I have been watching this thread with some wonderment my own self and am amazed at how one thread can go in so many directions at once.

Well-said, Jamie.

[Abax]

I have been watching this thread with some wonderment my own self and am amazed at how one thread can go in so many directions at once.

It's because many people are talking about several things at once, with many assuming we're all talking about the same thing *and* disagreeing.

Abax

[DWFII]

I have been watching this thread with some wonderment my own self and am amazed at how one thread can go in so many directions at once.

I respectfully disagree...if you think about it in a certain way, it's not really true.

The subject is "The Importance of knowing the Rules..."

Non-traditional "kilts" are not subject to "rules." I think we all accept that and if not, then this thread has gone some ways toward establishing that principle. In fact, some have gone so far as to vociferously assert that the whole reason for wearing a non-traditional "kilt" is to flaunt or go outside the accepted rules and conventions.

So then, if we are talking about "rules or "conventions" we must, by default, be talking about traditional kilts...or "highland dress." Or, at most, some variation/evolution thereof.

Seen from that perspective, I think the thread has been remarkably focused...considering.

[PinkDeath]

Coming from a newbie, a female, and a non-traditionalist, I think you have to look at traditional Scottish modes of dress as coming from a different culture. If you want to fit in with a certain echelon of society (in this case Scotsmen and traditionalists), then you need to be able to dress well. That means knowing what piece of clothing goes where and why.

To illustrate, I had a friend that lived in a Central American country. When she first got there, she bought a long string of beads to wear as a necklace. A soon as she did, people started laughing at her because she didn't know that the beads were used to hold up underwear.

You need to know the basics of traditional dress, just so you don't embarass yourself. Technicalities like collar style and things that only the die-hards notice I don't particularly think is important. The length of the kilt, position of the sporan, and other basic things are a must, otherwise people will think you dress funny.