De-Anglicisation of Names

[TimC]

Got time for one more? Christopher...(from Christie perhaps?) I know my great grandfather came over in the mid 1800's and listed the point of origin as Glasgow but not many Christophers running around in Scotland these days.

On my mother's side, Allander, believed to have origianlly been Allen but changed for some reason after the third child arrived according to the 1881 (?) census.

-Tim

[davedove]

On the first page, Bradley asked about the name Henderson, or MacEunrig. Me and my dad have been arguing for a long time how its pronounced though. I think its pronouced like the alternative, MacKendrick. He thinks its pronounced Mac-YOOn-rig. Which is correct? Both? or neither?

Also, can you de-anglicise first names? I'm pretty sure my name, Woodrow, is an Anglo name. But that'd be cool if it could be de-anglicised.

Only an individual's family can really say how a name is pronounced. We've talked a lot about alternate spellings here, but there are also alternate pronunciations of names. These could result from many things, like regional dialects or even an ancestor who had a speech impediment.

A real good example is Smith and Smythe.

Isn't language interesting?

[Wompet]

Davedove's got a point - I know a family, half of whom are "E-la-son" and the other half are "E-li-a-son." And my Irish-American relatives are both "Dawn-ell" and "Don-Nul."

Slohairt, thanks for resurrecting this thread. I have three questions for you:
First, I had a roommate back in college whose Irish surname had been Anglicized to "Cummiskey," he thought the original had been pronounced "Mac-Cum-moch." Any guesses?

Second, what would the Gaelicisation of the English surname Sackett be? The original may have been occupational, as we are all supposedly descended from Andrew le Sacre, but the Sacketts are geographically centered around one location (no wool-sackers in the rest of England?).

Third, what is the feminine of Lorcán? (Given the family history of women most of my male ancestors have married, I should be on the lookout for her. )

[slohairt]

Got time for one more? Christopher...(from Christie perhaps?) I know my great grandfather came over in the mid 1800's and listed the point of origin as Glasgow but not many Christophers running around in Scotland these days.

On my mother's side, Allander, believed to have origianlly been Allen but changed for some reason after the third child arrived according to the 1881 (?) census.

-Tim

Dia Dhuit, A Thiom,

CHRISTOPHER/CHRISTIE: Christopher can occasionally be a "translation" of Mac Gille Chriosd (pronounced MAC GILL-A CREEST) which means son of the servant of Christ. Christie, however, is a Lowland Scots pet form of Christopher. It gave rise to one patronymic, Mac Chriosdaidh (pronounced MAC CRIST-AY)

ALLANDER: Allander is a river in Scotland, so one could probably assume the name is topographical in origin. The etymology of Allander is apparently a hybrid of Gaelic and Brythonic (akin to Welsh). Alltan Dwr roughly translates as little stream of water.

Allen, on the other hand, if Scottish, is anglicised from Mac Ailein (pronounced MAC AL-IN).

[slohairt]

Only an individual's family can really say how a name is pronounced. We've talked a lot about alternate spellings here, but there are also alternate pronunciations of names. These could result from many things, like regional dialects or even an ancestor who had a speech impediment.

A real good example is Smith and Smythe.

Isn't language interesting?

That is true to some extent. The pronunciation I am using is the written standard for Gaelic (whether Irish or Scottish).

Despite having dialects and other variances, one will discover that Gaelic does not have the divergence in sounds that English does. Nor does the spelling vary much. The greatest strength of the English language is its adaptability. Your example of Smith/Smythe, however, illustrates its greatest weakness: poor orthography.

The English language has undergone an immense amount of change over the past thousand years. Gaelic, relatively speaking, has not. It must also be remembered that Gaelic (or rather, Irish, as they were one and the same back then) is Europe's oldest literary language after Greek and Latin.

[slohairt]

Davedove's got a point - I know a family, half of whom are "E-la-son" and the other half are "E-li-a-son." And my Irish-American relatives are both "Dawn-ell" and "Don-Nul."

Slohairt, thanks for resurrecting this thread. I have three questions for you:
First, I had a roommate back in college whose Irish surname had been Anglicized to "Cummiskey," he thought the original had been pronounced "Mac-Cum-moch." Any guesses?

Second, what would the Gaelicisation of the English surname Sackett be? The original may have been occupational, as we are all supposedly descended from Andrew le Sacre, but the Sacketts are geographically centered around one location (no wool-sackers in the rest of England?).

Third, what is the feminine of Lorcán? (Given the family history of women most of my male ancestors have married, I should be on the lookout for her. )

SACKETT: You asked me that back in Post #55!

CUMMISKEY: Actually, Cummiskey is closer to the original pronunciation. It is anglicised from Mac Cumascaigh (pronounced MAC KUM-ASK-EE) which means son of Cumascach, a personal name meaning vigorous.

LORCÁN: To the best of knowledge, there is no feminine form of Lorcán. Gaelic doesn't have a lot of feminine versions of indigenous male names. I suppose you could try Lorcána or Lorcáinín based on recognised patterns in Irish naming. [i.e. Pádraig (m) = Pádraigín (f); Gearóid (m) = Gearóidín (f)]

[Wompet]

SACKETT: You asked me that back in Post #55!

In my defense, that was quite a few posts ago. I remembered asking about Donnell and Donnachaidh, but not my own surname!

[slohairt]

That's okay, I put the Gaelicisations de Saicéad (IRISH) Saiceud (SCOTTISH) in Post 57.

[Oatmeal Savage]

Could you help me with Grant? It is French/Norman?

Thanks
Kevin

[Coinneach]

I have a name hovering many years back in my ancestry: Glaspell. I think it might be Welsh and that a branch of the family became Glaspey.

My apologies if this doesn't fit into this thread at all.