Post Your Granted, Assumed or Desired Arms

[Mike_Oettle]

Many thanks, Kyle, for pointing out the difference between the clan chief’s personal emblem (the crest) and the clansman’s badge (the crest within a strap and buckle).
Time and again I see that people trip over the distinction.
But I should also mention that for people not resident in Scotland, there is no need for them to obtain a grant from Lord Lyon.
In Scotland, Lyon has the power to deface irregular arms.
It is, however, preferable that arms be registered with some authority (even if it is a private association in the US), simply to ensure that they are in fact unique.
Regards,
Mike

[creagdhubh]

Many thanks, Kyle, for pointing out the difference between the clan chief’s personal emblem (the crest) and the clansman’s badge (the crest within a strap and buckle).
Time and again I see that people trip over the distinction.
But I should also mention that for people not resident in Scotland, there is no need for them to obtain a grant from Lord Lyon.
In Scotland, Lyon has the power to deface irregular arms.
It is, however, preferable that arms be registered with some authority (even if it is a private association in the US), simply to ensure that they are in fact unique.
Regards,
Mike

Very true Mike!

[Oberu]

Here is my family's CoA and happily I've just noticed that I've got kin here.
I believe the translation is "The stronger hand above" though there seems to be some difference of opinions here. By the way.. my name is Paul O'Briant. Seems the "t" on the end has been rumored to have been a cross and was a notation for catholicism when our lot came over. The spelling was most likely penned the way the recorder thought that it spelled and I guess the cross was just a little too close to the name and stuck... So most O'Brien, O'Brian, O'Bryan, O'Brient, O'Bryant and yes O'Briant are likely kinfolk. I've chased the line back to Brian Boru (kinda popular fella back in the day) if any of you O'B's out there are interested.

[EagleJCS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph McMillan
By rights, he should determine legitimacy according to the laws of the place and time where they lived. Under Scots law, children have always been legitimated by the subsequent marriage of the parents.

I suppose I (or a lawyer) will have to research the case law of the time for the jurisdiction(s) in question (US, KY, IL) to determine his legitimacy. There was/is no question of paternity, just whether or not his birth was made legitimate by the subsequent marriage of his parents at a later date.

Thanks for the responses, Cygnus & Joseph!

Resurrecting a post from WAYYY back...

YAY! I now have it on good authority that my gf was legitimate, at least in the eyes of the law (in KY anyway). A lawyer friend of mine found the applicable KY statute and a couple of similar cases predating my gf's birth. We still aren't 100% certain he was born in KY (no birth certificate was filed in KY at or shortly after the time of his birth).

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Here is my family's CoA and happily I've just noticed that I've got kin here.
I believe the translation is "The stronger hand above" though there seems to be some difference of opinions here. By the way.. my name is Paul O'Briant. Seems the "t" on the end has been rumored to have been a cross and was a notation for catholicism when our lot came over. The spelling was most likely penned the way the recorder thought that it spelled and I guess the cross was just a little too close to the name and stuck... So most O'Brien, O'Brian, O'Bryan, O'Brient, O'Bryant and yes O'Briant are likely kinfolk. I've chased the line back to Brian Boru (kinda popular fella back in the day) if any of you O'B's out there are interested.

The likely reason that there is a "T" on the end of your name is that your immigrant ancestor was unable to write. On an official form someone would have written "Fred O'Brian" and your ancestor would have put his "mark" an "x" or a "t" next to it. Later that mark would have been incorporated into the name as a letter-- changing O'Brian into O'Briant. A not uncommon occurrence.

The arms that you have posted are actually the arms of Conor O'Brien, Lord Inchquinn, Chief of Clan O'Brien. While it is great to display the arms of your clan chief, they are actually his property, and his property alone. Should you wish to have a personal coat of arms, as long as you can trace back to your immigrant O'Briant ancestor, the Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland should be willing to grant you arms based on those of your chief.

[kc8ufv]

As far as I recall, this is the crest that has been on the wall in my parents and great grandparents home.



I seem to recall another ribbon on top that says "Fortier et Fidileter" also...

[JSFMACLJR]

The likely reason that there is a "T" on the end of your name is that your immigrant ancestor was unable to write. On an official form someone would have written "Fred O'Brian" and your ancestor would have put his "mark" an "x" or a "t" next to it. Later that mark would have been incorporated into the name as a letter-- changing O'Brian into O'Briant. A not uncommon occurrence.

The arms that you have posted are actually the arms of Conor O'Brien, Lord Inchquinn, Chief of Clan O'Brien. While it is great to display the arms of your clan chief, they are actually his property, and his property alone. Should you wish to have a personal coat of arms, as long as you can trace back to your immigrant O'Briant ancestor, the Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland should be willing to grant you arms based on those of your chief.

Scott,
Is the mantling really gules and vert? Seems a bit odd. I thought most Irish grants had gules and argent mantling.

Cheers,
S.

[Oberu]

I appreciate the fact that they are a source of revenue and tourism. I see all the codes of arms and heraldry as a source of history and pride in the lines of old families, much like a flag for a state. The picture I posted for my family’s coat of arms is much like the one that is and has been hanging on the wall of my father’s home for longer than I can remember. I find a great deal of pride in the family I’ve known and the stories I’m told about those I never had the chance to meet. I would like to apologize for blowing my top MacMillan. I'm guilty of having my heart outweigh my head on occasion and this was certainly one. It is difficult to get a feel of an intended message out of words alone. I don't do this strictly for the forum's sake but as a fellow who stepped over the line and see as much. Family is a strong source of pride and may we all be so lucky as to have ours around as long as the good Lord sees fit!

[Mael Coluim]

We have received a report of a possible Rule 2 Violation of a post in this thread. I have moved that post and related posts to the Cooling Off Corner as we do not want any escalation of the argument to occur as the post is deliberated by the moderators. Thank you.

[Gael Ridire]

Sadly the Irish clans have only fifteen recognized chiefs of name, and when those pass away Ireland will recognize the title no more. There are no recognized clansman's badge, although several have tried to design one. Here on the forum is McMillan who had a big hand in designing one of the styles, which I personally like. The first Chief Herald Edward MacLysaght was of the opinion that the basic Irish clan arms belong to the clan, since the clan lands belonged to those of the clan and not to the Chief. To display the arms in one's home as a sign of clan loyalty was fine, but to use it as a personal device he wrote for one to apply for a personal grant. There are those which refute this opinion but like McMillan, I support this type of display.

When I applied for a personal grant in 1991 from the Chief Herald of Ireland having been rejected by the Lord Lyon for having an Irish surname, I applied as the final compliment for some 3500 page family history I had worked 30 years in researching and writing.

So many are so ill informed about the correct use of heraldry believing that every surname has a coat-of-arms, and for a few bucks can obtain one. I have no objection for a person to assume arms. That's how it was done back in the twelfth century. A friend of mine has done so, but every so often he changes it, again, and again, year after year. But society just doesn't understand the art & science. Personally I love it, just wish my children did too!