Too Traditional?

[Bugbear]

???

I'm sorry, creagdhubh, I should have put that in first person.

It has been too easy for me to start to feel like I have a feel for Scots tradition, then find out, or be shown that I really know very little. It seems much of this is ingrained from early on. The polo shirt discussion reminded me of a discussion from a long time back that left me feeling that I had only been accommodated by the traditionalist members in what I would prefer to wear, rather than coming to an understanding of what is viewed to be traditional or even acceptable Highland attire. If you ain't got it, you ain't got it.

[creagdhubh]

I'm sorry, creagdhubh, I should have put that in first person.

It has been too easy for me to start to feel like I have a feel for Scots tradition, then find out, or be shown that I really know very little. It seems much of this is ingrained from early on. The polo shirt discussion reminded me of a discussion from a long time back that left me feeling that I had only been accommodated by the traditionalist members in what I would prefer to wear, rather than coming to an understanding of what is viewed to be traditional or even acceptable Highland attire. If you ain't got it, you ain't got it.

No worries, I was simply confused if you were directing your statement towards someone specific or not, thanks for your clarification - it makes perfect sense. I am sure you 'have it,' Bugbear so in that regard...wear what you like and what makes you feel happy!!!

Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

post deleted

[Peter Crowe]

It has been too easy for me to start to feel like I have a feel for Scots tradition, then find out, or be shown that I really know very little. It seems much of this is ingrained from early on. The polo shirt discussion reminded me of a discussion from a long time back that left me feeling that I had only been accommodated by the traditionalist members in what I would prefer to wear, rather than coming to an understanding of what is viewed to be traditional or even acceptable Highland attire. If you ain't got it, you ain't got it.

Bugbear,
You must do what works for you my friend, however, a few observations that I would offer are:

1) There are variations of opinion among kilt traditionalists although I think we would all agree on what are acceptable THCD basics outside of formal evening wear. However, when we get to the personal flair part what might be acceptable kilt-wear for one traditionalist may grate on another traditionalist's sensibility.

2) Traditionalists are largely a self-identifying group of individuals none of whom have the right to dictate how anyone dresses. Some because of their knowledge and experience may speak with the authority that confers, and are a useful source of THCD wisdom, but I doubt the people I am thinking of would ever claim their opinions have any more weight than that.

3) The very fact that you are sensitive to the deep and early socialization in THCD that some of us Scots are brought up with gives you an insight many do not have and should be a useful self-check in exploring traditional kilt-wearing well.

4) I consider myself a traditionalist, have worn a kilt since age three (I'm now 45), and was brought up to wear the kilt traditionally in my family. However, I am still curious to learn more because I appreciate that my dad (who also wore the kilt from earliest boyhood) knew a lot but still allowed himself to be persuaded into purchases by Kilt-makers (especially evening-wear in the late 70's) that were a bit naff. I'm still learning and I was born and brought up with kilts in Scotland and lived there until I was 37.

[Tobus]

the gentlemen on the right is wearing attire that leans towards the theatrical, with traditional adaptations

Jock, if I may, I'd like to dissect your comment and his attire so that I can better understand where you're coming from. Aside from the old-fashioned waistcoat and the (dreaded) ghillie brogues, what is it about his outfit that leans towards the theatrical? It looks to me like his shirt, tie, Crail jacket, sporran, kilt, hose, and flashes all seem firmly rooted in THCD style. If he were wearing regular brogues and a more modern waistcoat, would there be anything about his attire that strikes you as "too traditional" or theatrical?

As far as context, I believe this is one of the Culloden gatherings, and from other photos I've seen of these events, people are generally dressed in period clothing (though it seems that many take it to the realm of fantasy costume). By comparison, his outfit is pretty tame, though I do agree that it's a bit anachronistic.

[creagdhubh]

Jock, if I may, I'd like to dissect your comment and his attire so that I can better understand where you're coming from. Aside from the old-fashioned waistcoat and the (dreaded) ghillie brogues, what is it about his outfit that leans towards the theatrical? It looks to me like his shirt, tie, Crail jacket, sporran, kilt, hose, and flashes all seem firmly rooted in THCD style. If he were wearing regular brogues and a more modern waistcoat, would there be anything about his attire that strikes you as "too traditional" or theatrical?

A certainly can't speak for Jock and I am sure he will be chiming in shortly, but I see the chap's attire as a bit 'theatrical' too simply because of his 'period looking' waistcoat - it just seems out of place for day attire and does not reflect traditional Highland dress in my opinion. The addition of the black rosettes and red-laced ghillie brogues don't help either, though there is nothing wrong with them when worn in a different context. I believe these are all details best left for evening attire and functions of 'that ilk.' With that being said, I do think his shirt, neck tie, pocket square, jacket, kilt, sporran, hose, flashes, stick and pocket watch are quite alright for day attire - given this particular context where I assume the chap wanted to 'dress up' a bit without going so far as to wearing black tie and silver buttons.

As far as context, I believe this is one of the Culloden gatherings, and from other photos I've seen of these events, people are generally dressed in period clothing (though it seems that many take it to the realm of fantasy costume). By comparison, his outfit is pretty tame, though I do agree that it's a bit anachronistic.

I agree with you and this is what I had previosuly stated above.

Cheers,

[David Thorpe]

White hose? Or the light blue Balmoral with the maroon jacket?

[Jock Scot]

White hose? Or the light blue Balmoral with the maroon jacket?

Try "white hose man". And--------------?

[CMcG]

Try "white hose man". And--------------?

OK, apart from the white hose, the things that stand out to me as being a bit off: black jacket, possibly a dress Argyll (rather than tweed for daywear); dirk worn to the side (thereby scrunching up said jacket); tartan flashes.

The claret bonnet is perhaps an unusual colour, but that's not necessarily a bad thing... his cromach seems acceptable given the location and his black leather shoes look fairly plain.

*edit MacSpadger beat me to the post!

[Jock Scot]

Well alright you all have been looking for about half an hour for things that I see in a blink of an eye. My perceptions, impressions and assumptions could all be deemed as unfair and may well be just plain wrong, and to my eyes "White Hose Man" shouts "American" and is too traditional. Or to put it another way, trying too hard. I think I should add, we are using this gentleman for educational purposes not for any criticism of him personally.

So What am I seeing?

Well, I think the white hose caught my eye first of all, then I think the unusual bonnet colour(remember we are in the Scots Highlands). Then the black jacket, then THAT DIRK, then a short stick, and finally the length of the kilt. Oh and the tartan flashes don't help either.

He is when all said and done turned out very smartly and white hose, black jacket and long kilt would probably have got him into the traditional bracket. The dirk,short stick and maroon bonnet put him in the trying too hard bracket.

So it is the overall impression that counts and individual pieces of attire are not so critical. Apart from the dirk.

A word on bonnet colours. We have retired Paras, we have retired Royal Marines, for example and as a uniform they wear maroon or green berets, but as civilians most (nearly all that I have met choose not to wear those colours with their civilian balmoral). It is something that I have noticed retired American service personal seem to do.