I would like to submit a proposal to the membership

[ratspike]

Traditional Approaches to Kilt Wearing This is a section to discuss time tested traditional views on kilt wearing. "Now" with due respect given to "then".

Non-Traditional Approaches to Kilt Wearing: This is a section for those who march to the beat of a different drummer. Whether you wear a traditional kilt in a non-traditional manner or enjoy new styles of kilt made in non-traditional ways or out of non-traditional materials, this is the section to strut your stuff.

Historical Approaches to Kilt Wearing: This is the section to discuss how the kilt was worn in various periods in its history. Reenactors and textile history buffs, this is the place for you!

And, to be inclusive, maybe two more sections:

Neo-Traditional approaches to kilt wearing: This is a section for people who enjoy emulating the look advocated by the Highland wedding industry such as like white hose, tartan flashes, semi-dress sporrans, ruche ties, ghillie brogues, pseudo-jacobite shirts and other fashion trends that, although they haven't all stood the test of time, are nonetheless 'of the moment'.

Theatrical approaches to kilt wearing: This is a place for people who enjoy emulating the attire of Hollywood movies and putting together historically questionable outfits perhaps consisting of woad or plenty of edged weapon replicas just for the fun of it. This is for the Bravehearts and the Duncan MacLeod of the Clan MacLeods to gather.

Would that cover everyone?

IMO this completely nails it. If the kilt-wearing sections of the site were going to be renamed and be given new mission statements, I can't think of a better, more accurate way to do it.

[Destin_scot]

Steve,

I like the idea you are proposing, I usualy wear my kilts to 1) special events: weddings; receptions; company holiday parties, and formal Mardi Gras Balls. 2) highland or celtic themed events: games, celidhs, concerts, etc. 3) the after race socials (5K, 10K, 1/2 marathons, etc); much cooler/warmer in a kilt than clothes worn during the race.

I think that my categories 1 and 2 would fit into your "Highland Event Wear" category, though some might think that the Mardi Gras Balls would fall under the "Historical and Costume Wear" and my category 3 would fit under "Modern Street Wear"

So, there probably needs to be some refining...maybe something like a formal/semi formal section..

just an idea....

[Nathan]

The Traditional section could be re-defined like - Highland Event Wear -
In this section you would post if you were going to wear your kilt to a Highland Games, a dress dinner, wedding or prom.
You would also post here if the reason you were putting on a kilt is to go to any Highland themed event.
I think this would cover about 99% of the posts currently in the Traditional section.
My thinking is that when the traditionalist do post they are almost always going to some event and they are wearing Highland Attire.

This idea concerns me the most. People wear anything under the sun to Highland games. If this change was made it would effectively kill the traditional sub-forum which, as David Pope points out, is working well.

[TheOfficialBren]

Humbly submitted, there should be some distinction made between traditional-styled kilts (tartan/tweed) and MUGS (Utilikilts, Skilts, et al). Those are important distinctions to make here.

[ratspike]

Humbly submitted, there should be some distinction made between traditional-styled kilts (tartan/tweed) and MUGS (Utilikilts, Skilts, et al). Those are important distinctions to make here.

Agreed, and I'm thinking that the suggestion @Nathan made for new sections would cover this. What I like about the "non-traditional approach" section is that it would include both MUGs as well as folks wearing tartan in a more outside-the-box fashion.

[kiltedrennie]

Agreed, and I'm thinking that the suggestion @Nathan made for new sections would cover this. What I like about the "non-traditional approach" section is that it would include both MUGs as well as folks wearing tartan in a more outside-the-box fashion.

I mostly agree. I don't have the link at hand, but the thread with the (10 or so I think) images showing versions of dress from very formal all the way to very casual would indicate a more broad spectrum of dress rather than a few distinct categories. I would probably add one or two more in the ultra-neo-casual category (did I just make that up?), but I could work within this. Too fine a division and I'd end up all alone in my own sub-forum . 99% of the time I fall into the very casual t-shirt/sweatshirt/jumper scrunched down sock and boot with a touch of leather category.

[ThistleDown]

Actually, Nathan, the traditional sub-forum is the most active. The reason for that is that it contributes maximum interest to the largest number of members. What we must do is find a common and solid denominator for those who wear the kilt in unconventional/personalised or non-conformist ways. And then we need to find a way for them to feel part of the bigger forum. Welcoming them as kilt-wearers in need of no correction, in other words, and ignoring their invitation to find fault.

[Mael Coluim]

The term Non-Traditional strikes me as second class. Perhaps if the term modern is not exact maybe contemporary should be considered. (Feelings of Deja vu here.) The funny thing here I think its a mind set what you are emulating. Steve is thinking modern and Rex is thinking Traditional and no one else can see the difference.

I appreciate what Steve is attempting in redefining the categories and see merit in what Nathan is attempting to fine tune, but I think I'll sit in DavidPope's tent for awhile.

[Steve Ashton]

I'm going to quote something here which I had a very very strong knee jerk reaction to.

"This idea concerns me the most. People wear anything under the sun to Highland games. If this change was made it would effectively kill the traditional sub-forum which, as David Pope points out, is working well.'

I honestly believe that this is at the crux of why I think the current Traditional section is NOT working.
I work Highland Games. I see all kinds of people and I see all kinds of ways to dress.
But at Games there is one thing that binds everyone together. They are celebrating their Scottish Heritage.

To me it does not matter that a guy shows up in an old Prince Charlie three sizes too big and a traditional kilt kilt worn at jeans waist with the hem overlapping the tops of his white hose.

It also does not matter that another guy shows up with blue face paint and a double handed broadsword across his back.

Both of these guys are dressing in what they believe is their best Scottish outfits.

Where I take objection is the suggestion in the above quote that they are somehow wrong. That is just the height of Kilt Koppery.

If I see a guy dressed in his laird's plaid, and cromach two things come to mind.
The first thought is Öh, are they are doing Brigadoon this year." and then "That guy must be part of the floor show".
If you want to dress like your idea of a Highland Chief, fine. But to most people at games here in N. America you are seen to be in costume just like the guy playing at being Mel Gibson.

To suggest, or as is often the case on this forum lately, that one guy is somehow right and the other wrong is just WRONG!

The other thing that causes me to have a knee jerk reaction (and we are starting to see hints of it in others) is that somehow this is a contest about how Scottish you are.
We even had just such a contest on this forum not too long ago. I almost shut that thread down for the simple fact that -
This is a kilt fashion forum. It is not a Scottish forum. Nor is it a Scottish Heritage or Scottish life forum.
If you wanted a Scottish forum you should have posted more over on "The Scot's Forum" and kept it going. Or failing that, bought "The Scot's Forum" and made it into what you want.

It even says so right in our Mission Statement -

"This site is a place where our members can enjoy the company of all other fellow kilt wearers. We wish to provide a place where those who choose to wear the kilt can find friendship, information, guidance, advice, and share their kilt experiences with others.


This is a Kilt Forum. Our members come here to learn about, discuss and share a love for the kilt. This is not a Scottish specific forum nor is it a highland wear specific forum, just as it is not a modern wear specific forum. We keep our focus on the kilt. It is what brings us here and what makes this forum unique in the world."

What I am seeing more and more of is an attitude of elitism and ego boosting about being so right, so Scottish.

I am honestly trying to find a way to make everyone who chooses to put on a kilt, for whatever reason, to be welcome here.

This forum recognizes the Scottish origins of the kilt and the part the kilt plays in the Scottish dress. But we also need to see and welcome the UK/dreadlock/big boot style of kilts.

You don't know how many times I have bitten my tongue and not shouted - IF YOU WANT TO DRESS LIKE A TRUE SCOT, THEN YOU NEED TO DRESS LIKE THIS!"



YES
It was native Scots living in Scotland who gave the world White Hose.
It was native Scots living in Scotland who gave the world Ruche ties.
Yes, it was even native Scots living in Scotland who taught the world to dress in the "Cookie cutter" way.
Want proof, just look though the site of one of our Scottish advertisers on the top banner or the bottom banner.

And then we deride the guy who dresses like the examples he sees all over the web.

It is only on this site where we hold some old photos from a 1900 catalog up as an ideal and then try to tell some other person they are wrong for the way they put on their kilt.

I honestly believe that we need to take a chill pill. When a newbie comes to us and says he wants to wear the kilt we should be responding with, "Come on in, the water's fine".

[ThistleDown]

The term Non-Traditional strikes me as second class. Perhaps if the term modern is not exact maybe contemporary should be considered. (Feelings of Deja vu here.) The funny thing here I think its a mind set what you are emulating. Steve is thinking modern and Rex is thinking Traditional and no one else can see the difference.

I appreciate what Steve is attempting in redefining the categories and see merit in what Nathan is attempting to fine tune, but I think I'll sit in DavidPope's tent for awhile.

Yes, deja vu, Ern. We've been here and done this. As you said, the redefining of categories by Steve and the fine-tuning by Nathan are all to the well and good, but I like the Traditional as DavidPope sees it, too -- for now -- and really think what is in need of re-work is "contemporary" or whatever we re-name it. As we are we define 'traditional' very well, but we fail miserably when it comes to describing alternative ways to wear Highland dress than what is traditional. Sad to say, but I think that has much to do with 21C confusion about what is 'alternative' or 'ab-normal'.