Tweed Great Kilt

[MHorne39]

I have a kilt in the fabric you're probably talking about, by Marton Mills, 16 ounce tartan tweed, Hunting Stewart Weathered.

It's the nicest kilt I've ever had.

However it does seem thicker and heavier than ordinary 16 ounce worsted kilting cloth, though I suppose technically they're the same.

It would look beautiful in a breacan-an-feileadh though in addition to being heavy and bulky it's also hopelessly anachronistic, as "weathered tartans" were introduced in 1949 and the breacan-an-feileadh became a thing of history around the beginning of the 19th century.

It's films like Rob Roy and television programmes like Outlander which have cemented "weathered" tartans as having existed in early times.

We have to face the fact that for over 200 years the breacan-an-feileadh has been a historical garment. Being a former re-enactor I've spent plenty of time in historical clothing, but such isn't going to pass for current fashion. Wearing a breacan-an-feileadh calls for powdered wig and the rest of the panoply of 18th century fashion.

Thanks for your response! You’re absolutely right, it’s the Stewart Hunting Weathered Tweed that I have my eye on. I’m not too worried about ‘historical accuracy’ necessarily, i don’t wear them as part of re-enactment costumes or for anything similar. I’ve just fallen in love with the look of it (I’ll normally wear them with a grandfather shirt or t shirt and leave the tails behind me instead of pinning to the shoulder in ‘traditional Highlander’ fashion. I really enjoy the kind of tribal, rugged look of it and it keeps it, to me anyways, from looking too costumey. Really appreciate the input!

[Jock Scot]

Thanks for your response! You’re absolutely right, it’s the Stewart Hunting Weathered Tweed that I have my eye on. I’m not too worried about ‘historical accuracy’ necessarily, i don’t wear them as part of re-enactment costumes or for anything similar. I’ve just fallen in love with the look of it (I’ll normally wear them with a grandfather shirt or t shirt and leave the tails behind me instead of pinning to the shoulder in ‘traditional Highlander’ fashion. I really enjoy the kind of tribal, rugged look of it and it keeps it, to me anyways, from looking too costumey. Really appreciate the input!

Rest assured that if you dress as you wish then you WILL be be looking “ costumy” and you will certainly not be attired traditionally. Historically attired perhaps although the tartan won’t help. However, it’s your outfit and your life and you have the choice to dress as you please.

[OC Richard]

...a grandfather shirt...I really enjoy the tribal look...keep it from looking too costume-y.

Sorry but the breacan-an-feileadh IS historical costume and there's no way around it. I wouldn't wear a tricorn hat, knee breeches, buckled shoes, or a breacan-an-feileadh to a party because I have only ever worn historical outfits as part of a historical setting.

About the "grandfather shirt" I don't know if it's in the category of historical costume, or in the same category as the "pirate shirt/Jacobite shirt" which is a garment which never existed historically in any time-period or place and is entirely an invention of 1920s Hollywood.

Oh how Hollywood did love to put their beefcake actors in those! (As best I can reckon early Hollywood borrowed the style from 19th century baseball shirts, worn by the popular athletes of that time.)



About "tribal look" it's likewise a Hollywood creation with no historical antecedent.

I've gone down the rabbit-hole on that, and our concept of how "ancient Highlanders" looked seems to have originated with three Englishmen (John and Charles Allen, and Robert Jones) who met at the London Highland Society in the 1820s. Under fake Scottish names the brothers moved to Scotland and wrote a fanciful error-ridden book on the history of Highland Dress and produced a fake "ancient manuscript" of tartans, most of which they invented themselves.

Likewise under a fake Scottish name Robert Jones created equally fanciful illustrations of "ancient Highlanders" for a tartan book.



These outfits were picked up around 1900 for another tartan book.



The Allen brother's fake tartans are still in production, and Jones' fake "ancient Highlanders" are still followed by Hollywood costume designers and Ren Fair and Highland Games attendees.

I was a re-enactor. Re-enactors aren't interested in fantasy costumes. We do history. We spend large amounts of research to find out exactly what historical outfits looked like and spare little expense on getting our re-creations as correct as possible.

We don't wear historical costumes (or bits thereof) as part of everyday wear. There are times and places for historical costume, such as films and historical presentations.

[Pleater]

I was just going through my craft/dressing room and decided to get rid of several old kilts made some considerable time ago - I can attest that weathered tartans do exist in nature, but they are strange looking attire indeed as the inside of the pleats remains in fairly original colours only affected by the consequences of washing or wading, whilst the outside of the pleats and the aprons alter more in line with how the dyes react to sunlight, coupled with how wool goes brown when exposed to sunlight when wet.

They might have been useful camouflage along the lines of DPM outfits, but I have more than enough kilts these days and my days and nights of doing ruffy tuffy stuff out on moor and hillside have reduced down to zero, thank goodness.

Anne the Pleater

[OC Richard]

This is such an interesting photo, a Seaforth Highlanders kilt which seems to have been in a shop window or summat for a very long time.

Perhaps on a mannequin with a jacket covering part of it, who can say, but it clearly shows the effect of sun exposure.



I will point out that the "reproduction colours" tartan palette introduced by DC Dalgliesh in 1949 (copied and renamed "weathered colours" by Lochcarron sometime later) isn't like the fading seen in the old army kilt above.

Note that in the sun-faded kilt the green turns much lighter, a pale olive green, but the black and blue remain mostly unchanged.

Whereas with the modern reproduction/weathered palette green turns brown and blue turns pale grey, black remaining the same.



There's an interesting earlier weathered-looking tartan from World War I, a variant of Black Watch woven for the pipers of The Tyneside Scottish.

The green remains more or less the same, but black is replaced by khaki drab, and blue is replaced with a dull maroon/brown.

It has an overall similar look to the faded MacKenzie above, though through an entirely different set of colour changes.

[Jock Scot]

The kilt in the first picture of yours OCR in the post above reminds me of the one that used to be seen in the window at the "War and Peace" museum in Oban. Perhaps its still there? Its a museum that is well worth a visit.

[OC Richard]

The only thing I can think of that would create that much fading is to spend decades in a window that gets direct sun.

Maybe that's the same kilt?

There are probably ways you can bleach tartan to get fading, but that would presumably fade the whole thing equally.

[Jock Scot]

The only thing I can think of that would create that much fading is to spend decades in a window that gets direct sun.

Maybe that's the same kilt?

I think it could well be. Funnily enough, I drove right past the museum the other day and did wonder if it was still there and then forgot to look!

[jthk]

I've a different opinion than some of our esteemed members. I do wear the belted plaid from time to time as a more-or-less substitution for my traditional kilts and have done so for several years. For my frame, at 5 ft 9 in tall and about 155-160 lb, I have found 4 yards of double-width fabric to suit me fine. I can barely stand wearing a belted plaid in temperatures above 20ish C because I'll become much too warm -- and that's with 10 (or 11?) oz wool.

I have worn 16 oz wool plaids before but I don't do that anymore because they're too bulky and too heavy for my use/taste. My ideal is 13 oz wool but, again, only at temperatures below 20ish C.

The tweed will automatically be warmer, in my experience. For your temperatures, I'd recommend 10 or 11 oz wool.

Regards,
Jonathan

Hello!

I have a few kilts now, both tailored and Feileadh Mor, and I’ve been looking at getting another, a Stewart Hunting Weathered Tweed Great Kilt. However, I’m not sure if this will be too warm. I live in Hawaii, so the temperature usually fluctuates between 60°F and about 85°F. I would only get 4 yards of it. My other Great Kilts are all 4 yards as well, but they’re all 13 ounce. My tailored kilts are both 16 ounce 5-yarders, and I don’t have a problem with those during the warmer times. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[jthk]

I wonder if a person didn't have your extensive experience and education (I mean this as a complimen), would they still think that the great kilt was a historical costume? I doubt it. ;-)

Sorry but the breacan-an-feileadh IS historical costume and there's no way around it. I wouldn't wear a tricorn hat, knee breeches, buckled shoes, or a breacan-an-feileadh to a party because I have only ever worn historical outfits as part of a historical setting.

About the "grandfather shirt" I don't know if it's in the category of historical costume, or in the same category as the "pirate shirt/Jacobite shirt" which is a garment which never existed historically in any time-period or place and is entirely an invention of 1920s Hollywood.

Oh how Hollywood did love to put their beefcake actors in those! (As best I can reckon early Hollywood borrowed the style from 19th century baseball shirts, worn by the popular athletes of that time.)



About "tribal look" it's likewise a Hollywood creation with no historical antecedent.

I've gone down the rabbit-hole on that, and our concept of how "ancient Highlanders" looked seems to have originated with three Englishmen (John and Charles Allen, and Robert Jones) who met at the London Highland Society in the 1820s. Under fake Scottish names the brothers moved to Scotland and wrote a fanciful error-ridden book on the history of Highland Dress and produced a fake "ancient manuscript" of tartans, most of which they invented themselves.

Likewise under a fake Scottish name Robert Jones created equally fanciful illustrations of "ancient Highlanders" for a tartan book.



These outfits were picked up around 1900 for another tartan book.



The Allen brother's fake tartans are still in production, and Jones' fake "ancient Highlanders" are still followed by Hollywood costume designers and Ren Fair and Highland Games attendees.

I was a re-enactor. Re-enactors aren't interested in fantasy costumes. We do history. We spend large amounts of research to find out exactly what historical outfits looked like and spare little expense on getting our re-creations as correct as possible.

We don't wear historical costumes (or bits thereof) as part of everyday wear. There are times and places for historical costume, such as films and historical presentations.