1828 Pattern Scottish Highland Officer’s Basket-hilted Broadsword - Reproduction

[jviss]

From the discussion here http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.28715.html it appears that the swords sold by Military Heritage are made in India.

I suspect that the military Heritage swords are made somewhere other than Ontario, but the thread you link to is anything but conclusive; some very vague speculation, as I read it. How did you get "appears that" from that thread?

[plaid preacher]

I will begin with my apology. I am sorry that this is the contrarian opinion.

The first has to do with the product description from Military Heritage. There is not one military member who wears a sword in full dress who would ever, ever, EVER use his sword for "light fencing". Parade swords are highly polished. They go with you dress uniform and therefore must look impecable.

Second, unless I was an officer/Sr NCO in a highland regiment I would never think of wearing a sword just because I am in highland dress. My rule of thumb - if I wouldn't wear it with a saxon suit, I will not wear it with highland dress. I believe the sword falls into this category. Put your amethyst back in your sporran Jaimie.

Finally: if you are looking for a sword to mount on the wall, then most will probably fit the bill. No one will get that close to tell whether you paid $50 or $500 dollars. AS they say, it all looks the same from 20 yards and a galloping horse.

Most military swords (British/Canadian), that I am acquainted with are manufactured by Wilkinson Sword and most officers (or Jr Officers, at least) draw their sword from stores for parades.

[Bruce Scott]

I suspect that the military Heritage swords are made somewhere other than Ontario, but the thread you link to is anything but conclusive; some very vague speculation, as I read it. How did you get "appears that" from that thread?

These posts:

Jonathan Hopkins: "The MH swords are made by either Weapon Edge or Universal Swords"


Edward Lee: "These are indeed made by Universal swords."

And here are the links to the makers:

http://weaponedge.com/about-us.html

https://www.universalswords.com/about-us

[jviss]

These posts:

Jonathan Hopkins: "The MH swords are made by either Weapon Edge or Universal Swords"


Edward Lee: "These are indeed made by Universal swords."

And here are the links to the makers:

http://weaponedge.com/about-us.html

https://www.universalswords.com/about-us

Both of those guys are speculating, they don't know; they certainly don't provide any compelling evidence to support the assertion. Did you even look at those websites? Both have but one picture of their sword, and in both cases the blade doesn't match that of the Military Heritage sword.

Now, it may well be that one of these makers is making the Military Heritage sword under contract, but one can't tell that by an examination of these websites or the speculation of guys on the internet.

I'll post a review when I get mine.

jv

[jviss]

I will begin with my apology. I am sorry that this is the contrarian opinion.

The first has to do with the product description from Military Heritage. There is not one military member who wears a sword in full dress who would ever, ever, EVER use his sword for "light fencing". Parade swords are highly polished. They go with you dress uniform and therefore must look impecable.

Second, unless I was an officer/Sr NCO in a highland regiment I would never think of wearing a sword just because I am in highland dress. My rule of thumb - if I wouldn't wear it with a saxon suit, I will not wear it with highland dress. I believe the sword falls into this category. Put your amethyst back in your sporran Jaimie.

Finally: if you are looking for a sword to mount on the wall, then most will probably fit the bill. No one will get that close to tell whether you paid $50 or $500 dollars. AS they say, it all looks the same from 20 yards and a galloping horse.

Most military swords (British/Canadian), that I am acquainted with are manufactured by Wilkinson Sword and most officers (or Jr Officers, at least) draw their sword from stores for parades.

I think you're taking all of this too literally, and too seriously. That bit text from Military Heritage that goes "for example, are used in fencing demonstrations" is a paragraph they use to describe all of the blades made of 1065 steel; they aren't suggesting anyone is doing fencing demonstrations in full dress, as you have imagined, they are only saying it won't break with knocking the blade against something.

As I said in an earlier reply, "a realistic model of the real thing is what I want, for display, highland dance, maybe piping some day." As far as wearing one in highland dress, if the dress calls for it, one very well may.

Since this pattern was introduced in 1828 there have probably been a hundred makers in addition to Wilkinson. Wilkinson was an innovator, and probably made the most consistently reliable swords for that use for which they were originally intended. But, alas, Wilkinson as a sword maker is no more, and hasn't been around since 2005. So all such swords have been made by someone else since.

I have no reason to disbelieve Military Heritage when they say they have supplied these to the Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary's), or their infantry sword to the 1st and 3rd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, and 32 Signal Regiment.

If this thing looks as good as the pics I'll be thrilled. We shall see. If it's made in India that's fine. The images of this sword look far superior to what is commonly available of Indian and Pakistani origin, though.

[jviss]

I received the Pakistani sword today - oy, what a piece of junk! It's going back. Can't wait to see the Military Heritage example.

[Piobair]

The vast majority of basket hilts, whether they go by "1828" or "1831" or officers pattern are pretty rough or at the very least look very "off." You can spot them from a mile away. Usually stamped brass basket, unstructured cloth lining and varying blade/scabbard quality. I took a look at the military heritage page, and this model is probably the best in terms of replicating a sword that actually looks like a Pooley or Wilkinson - http://www.militaryheritage.com/sword28.htm. These periodically come up at auction as well. For the most part though, the vast majority of basket hilts on the internet look god awful, neither close to current mil spec or even vaguely authentic for those with recreation on the mind.

I had a very good faux Wilkinson basket hilt about a million years ago that I contemplated wearing with No 1 dress while piping. Bought hangers and practiced marching about with it and... no. I can speak for the majority of us at the games when I say the first response to someone who shows up with a $75 dollar dirk or random claymore is to shake our heads. If you want to be a sword guy, cool. But it's not highland dress... it's highland make believe.

[ThistleDown]

I am sure we are all pleased, jviss, that you are returning what you are unhappy with, and hope that you will show us a pic or two to show what you call 'junk'. And, of course, what you receive next from Military Heritage.

I must agree, however, with Jock's way-back comment: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." And with Piobar's "I can speak for the majority of us at the games when I say the first response to someone who shows up with a $75 dollar dirk or random claymore is to shake our heads. If you want to be a sword guy, cool. But it's not highland dress... it's highland make believe."

I might have said "...living in the past" but that entirely depends on your reason for wanting/owning one of these, in the first place. Entirely up to you.

In the Highlands we do sometimes have these things hanging on our walls. They are not trophies, but a bit of heritage. We would never, ever, think of wearing one of them in public. It would be -- to us -- an eccentricity: wonderfully acceptable, perhaps, but an eccentricity regardless.

Buy your baskethilt, from wherever, Jviss, and enjoy it. Hang it on your lounge wall as an indication of where you came from. We should all have such memories, they are good for us .

[OC Richard]

When the Pipes & Drums of the Scots Guards came here on tour their swords looked real, to me



True that in recent photos I see them without them.

Back over 30 years ago when I was piping for quite a few military events had I not worn a sword I would have been the only man in attendance without one. That was my motivation, mainly, to dress according to the situation.

In like manner back then I was piping at around 40 to 50 weddings a year and at nearly all of them the men were in black tuxedos with black bow ties. Hence I wore a black Argyll with black bow tie. Ditto playing concerts with orchestras.

When hired I try to look the part.

By the way, funny story, my old Pipe Major and I used to play loads of duet gigs, and at the military Full Dress ones we would both be in Full Dress with swords.

A music agent saw us at one of these military events and asked for our card. A few months later my Pipe Major got a call from that guy, wanting to hire us for some event.

"You actually don't need to bring your bagpipes" he said. "But you need to wear those same uniforms and you need to bring your swords."

We show up at the event, and all they wanted us to do was stand on either side of the entrance and salute each couple, as they entered, with our swords!

It was ludicrous. We had a great time, in fact. We spent our down time between arrivals inventing more and more elaborate, preposterous, perfectly synchronized ways of saluting the folks. We could hardly keep a straight face.

[jviss]

Of course, I'd love to have the real thing, but the market for these is just under $1,000 for a rough one, to past $2,000 for an antique. I think a brand new one can be had for about $1,800. Still quite dear.

I just ordered a cheap, Pakistani-made reproduction, for only $55! Yikes! I wonder what it will look like.

I was wondering, has anyone had a go at turning one of these into a good representation of a real one, perhaps with some metalwork, nickle plating, fabricating a white buckskin and red silk lining, etc.?

Any good books or websites for doing this?

Thanks,

jv

I'm quoting the original post because I want to remind folks here that, as interesting as their replies are, regarding wearing a sword or not with highland dress, cutting things with a sword, and so on, I was really just asking about a realistic reproduction.

I think the best bet now, the best value for something that's actually in use by members of the armed services, is the one from Military Heritage. After I placed my order I read some reviews, and there were several complaints of little or slow or no customer service, unanswered emails, no phone support, and so on. My experience so far has been positive. Upon placing my order I immediately received an (presumably automated) email confirmation which stated orders would be processed within 3 to 5 business days. On the fourth business day I received a shipping notification with a UPS tracking number which showed I would receive my sword in two more days (that's Ontario to Massachusetts). So far, so good. Stay tuned.

jv