Bagpipes

[jumary]

I have wanted to learn the GHB since I was quite young but have always been intimidated by the prospect, especially when it comes to reading music. I play guitar by ear and have attempted to learn to read music but end up frustrated and unable to apply it at all; my gift is in my ear and anything technical just confuses me.

I understand that with bagpipes it is nearly impossible to learn to play by ear or on one's own. Is that strictly true? I know of at least one piper (Charlie Allan of Saor Patrol) who claims to have taught himself by ear. Granted, his is a very freestyle way of playing and not traditional, but the concept is there.

I do not have direct access to a teacher but have come across programs like Dojo University/Piper's Dojo. Does anyone have any experience with them or know anything about them? Also, might it be possible to teach oneself with a curriculum like Bagpipe Solutions?

Would appreciate any feedback.

I would recommend you get an instructor who can give you one-on-one attention. Some people may have learned to play by ear, but I think it would be too difficult. You will see that many tunes are not played exactly as they appear on the sheet music, and that is one place where an instructor is a big help. Many tunes also equipped subtle differences in timing of notes, and again, an instructor is indispensable in these cases.

I do think it helps to listen to bagpipes. YouTube and Spotify offer thousands of great examples from the best pipers n the world, and it helps to get used to their sound. You can also learn tunes you like and want to learn to play

Rather than retyping my thoughts from last week, I am copying my earlier response on this thread:

"Welcome to the bagpipes! Be patient and practice and you will steadily improve. It takes time to build stamina.
It s very smart that you have an instructor. That is very important.
Online, check out the Bob Dunsire forums:http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/index.php
A great online community that has lots of help. Another good sire is Pipers Dojo. They offer classes and sell supplies. If you desire another instructor, many good ones teach via Skype. I strongly recommend Neil Clarke at Grean Glen Piping. A great instructor and all around great guy. http://www.greatglenpiping.com/
I have been taking lessons with Neil for over four years and he has really helped me. You can also check out his videos on YouTube. He plays many tunes at a slow, instructional pace.
Send me a message any time you want to talk about bagpipes!'

[OC Richard]

I understand that with bagpipes it is nearly impossible to learn to play by ear

That's not the case, for example we have an excellent piper here who is totally blind.

Here he is. Anyone tells you that you need to read sheet music to learn pipes, tell them to listen to Austin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUSmYKKLGAQ

It's odd, the relationship between sheet music and Highland piping.

Very few pipers actually know how to read music, in the usual sense of being able to sightread a piece of music they have never seen or heard, cold, at first sight.

Likewise few pipers have developed their ear well enough to be able to play a tune upon first hearing it.

Most pipers exist in a strange place between ear-learning and eye-learning: to learn a tune they need to hear it AND have the sheet music in front of them, each being a crutch for the other.

Due to my playing Irish Traditional Music, which is learned by ear, I've developed the ability to quickly pick up tunes on the fly by ear. In our pipe band I'm the only one who doesn't want to look at the sheet music. The benefit of ear-learning is that I have the tunes mostly memorized by the end of the first rehearsal, while some of the pipers take weeks or months.

I do not have direct access to a teacher

Skype is an excellent way to go! I second the recommendation of Neil Clark.

A good teacher is tremendously helpful. For one thing you learn much faster due to focusing on the important things and avoiding getting bogged down in the unimportant ones.

Another thing is that self-learners usually waste huge amounts of time practicing their mistakes. The danger is having these mistakes becoming so ingrained that proper technique can never be acquired.

[KD Burke]

I'll second Richard's thoughts. I'm by no means a great piper. I started too late in life to ever become anything more than competent.

I absolutely HAVE TO hear a tune a few times before the funny little squiggles on the page make any sense at all to me. Once I have the melody fixed in my mind, I can start to use the sheet music to puzzle out where my fingers need to go. In truth, I learn the melody mostly by ear, and then use the sheet music to make sure I'm playing the same embellishments as the rest of the band.

Also, I'd suggest that no matter how good a teacher is, not every teacher can work with every student. If you find yourself truly bogged down, frustrated for an extended time, it may be that a change of instructor will do you some good.

[Profane James]

Thanks for mentioning Neil Clark - circular breathing never ceases to amaze me!

[Jimmy the Celt]

Thank you for your comments gentlemen.

I also play a lot of Irish traditional music and Scottish folk. Once I hear a tune, I can jump in with little to no trouble. Perhaps taking up a new instrument will put a different face on things, allowing me to get some degree of reading proficiency while training my ear. I am blessed with a pretty sharp ear already, so I imagine if a blind person can become a piper, there is some hope for me yet!

The North Texas Caledonian Pipes and Drums offers lessons with the view of making performing members. Practices are held about 40 minutes away from me, so that might be a doable option as well.

[OC Richard]

As pointed out above, most pipers are really picking up the timing and feel of the melody by ear, and using the sheet music for the fingering and the ornamentation.

So you don't need to be able to sightread in the normal sense in order to learn tunes as most pipers do, you just have be able to associate certain dots with certain fingers.

As you might well already know, how pipe bands tend to learn tunes is to have all the pipers sit around a big table with their Practice Chanters. The Pipe Major hands out the sheet music to everyone, then models how the tune sounds. You can watch his fingers and listen and figure out the tune very easily without looking at the music, that's what I do.

Once in a blue moon I might have to reference the music for a particular gracenote- usually not because I can't copy what the Pipe Major is playing, but because the other pipers are playing an ornament that's different from what he's playing. This is usually because the Pipe Major is previously familiar with the tune and is playing the version he already knows, which differs from the version he handed out to everybody.

This sort of thing happens all the time because pipers usually aren't actually sightreading the sheet music in front of them, as an ordinary musician would do.

By the way, lower-level pipe bands, say non-competition bands and Grade 5 and 4 bands, are usually playing music with far more ornamentation than the band is capable of cleanly playing. My philosophy is that any ornament that the entire band can't play cleanly and together should be cut out of the music.

[KD Burke]

By the way, lower-level pipe bands, say non-competition bands and Grade 5 and 4 bands, are usually playing music with far more ornamentation than the band is capable of cleanly playing. My philosophy is that any ornament that the entire band can't play cleanly and together should be cut out of the music.

Speaking from personal experience in just such a band (and having contributed my fair share of blundered taorluaths!) I would absolutely concur with this!

And speaking of bandsmen, there are all manner of well-meaning, but perhaps not so knowledgeable, pipers in bands who are happy to offer advice to aspiring pipers. I'd suggest listening politely, nodding at the appropriate points, then running any suggestions they offer past your instructor before trying them out!!

[GrainReaper]

This thread has gleaned more light on pipe playing than any other thing I've read, I've been toying with the idea of learning the pipes but have a hard time pulling the trigger on so spendy an instrument. I'm blessed with a perfect ear and the ability to play anything I hear on any instrument I've learned to play a scale on. So far that's been a collection of brass instruments, a sax, and the penny whistle. Once I can play a scale easily I can reproduce what I hear. Reading sheet music for me ended about 32 years ago, but I'm sure it will come to me if I take the time

[EagleJCS]

This thread has gleaned more light on pipe playing than any other thing I've read, I've been toying with the idea of learning the pipes but have a hard time pulling the trigger on so spendy an instrument. I'm blessed with a perfect ear and the ability to play anything I hear on any instrument I've learned to play a scale on. So far that's been a collection of brass instruments, a sax, and the penny whistle. Once I can play a scale easily I can reproduce what I hear. Reading sheet music for me ended about 32 years ago, but I'm sure it will come to me if I take the time

Well, you don't have to buy the full set of pipes right off. Most tunes are learned on the practice chanter at first (more experienced pipers will go directly to the pipes, but beginners are wise to get the tune 'under their fingers' before adding in the other elements of piping) and a practice chanter is MUCH less expensive (a decent Delrin/polypenco - i.e., plastic - practice chanter with a reed runs about US$80 to $100). Most beginners spend 5-8 months learning the basics on a practice chanter.

The Louisville Pipe Band offers 8 weeks of free 1 hour lessons (usually in a group setting). The only cost is the practice chanter and tutor book. From our experience, most people decide if they really want to stick with it after about two months. We then suggest they continue with private instruction from one of the band members or, depending on their playing level, joining in at the table with the other pipers. We don't expect them to keep up with everything right away, but do their best, listen and absorb what's being presented. (Students are almost always welcome to hang out & listen at any time).

My instructor didn't start suggesting I start shopping for a set of pipes until I had about 4 months of weekly lessons in. I didn't start working on playing just the drones until I had about 6 months of lessons, and I was given a 'loaner' set to use until the pipes I ordered were delivered (about 8 months after I started lessons).

[Jimmy the Celt]

As pointed out above, most pipers are really picking up the timing and feel of the melody by ear, and using the sheet music for the fingering and the ornamentation.

So you don't need to be able to sightread in the normal sense in order to learn tunes as most pipers do, you just have be able to associate certain dots with certain fingers.

That makes a lot of sense actually. A few years ago I learned to chant the Divine Office and I found that the square-note Gregorian notation made complete sense when I heard it demonstrated. Not exactly reading music, but similar to what you said, associating the square notes with certain vocal tones.

I really like the concept of Piper's Dojo/Dojo University, and that might work well for me. I just wish I could find some real reviews of how it works. But I also find the idea of Bagpipe Solutions intriguing. According to one vendor:

Master piper and teacher John Cairns of Canada has created a highly acclaimed tutorial series of books (each with audio CD) called "Bagpipe Solutions" that carry a student all the way from not knowing a single thing about bagpipes or music to becoming a competent piper, without the necessity of outside instruction. We have accumulated extensive experience in providing this unique system to students all over the world, and can sum up the results in two words: It works!

Could it be true?