Sgian Dubh Appropriate?

[Jewddha]

It really is up to you and your community, but I know that persoanlly, I would never carry a weapon of any sort (no matter its history) into my, or any other place of worship.

[bubba]

Around here the cops would confiscate it. Maximum legal blade length here is 3 inches and even at 3 inches they'll measure the thing.

[Derek]

Over the last twelve month I have been involved in lots of things with our local church helping them raise money for their restoration fund. I have always worn my knife in my sock whether I have been inside or outside the church. To be honest, I never gave it a second thought. No one, including the Clergy has ever commented on it. With regard to the Police .. when we last went to London to meet Hamish, while we were waiting for the train two British Transport police were walking along the platform. They stopped by me to say 'like the kilt'etc etc.. we had a little chat. They could plainly see I had a knife in my sock .. the thought went through my mind then that they might ask me to remove it. They did'nt even mention it and eventually moved on saying 'hope you have a nice day in London'. Derek

[Ingemar]

Hi!

According to Swedish law it is prohibited to carry any knife longer than 7 cm´s in public places. There are only two exceptions and those are: workers who need their knives for work (as if a carpenter has his knife in his box an has to pick it out to start working his firm has the right of payment for "establishing" and it costs half an hour jobtime) and people wearing traditional costume (not only kilt but several of our Swedish national costumes also have knives as part of them especially those from Dalarna where leather has been the major branch people were working in and most important the Sames, or the old pejorative word: the Lapps in their part of the nordic countries a knife is a must to survive and since that it belongs to the garments even right in the middle of the bigger cities or towns in the south of the nordic countries).

BTW. What about the natives in the US when they have their bigger events in the major cities as they also have a weapon-culture nowadays mostly used as symbols?

Greetings

Ingemar

[philibeg]

Last time I was in Paris I was taking a friend to see the Eiffel tower when , to my surprise, I found myself encircled by at least 7 gendarmes. I was wondering what I had done to deserve this honor, but it soon became clear that, far from planning to award me the Legion of Honor, they simply wanted to confiscate my sgian dubh. After much pleading and several invocations family traditions (which I don't have) and clan affilliations (ditto) they let me go when I promised to keep the offending blade submerged in my sporran...so, bewarewhen travelling on the continent (have had similar, if less dramatic, experiences here in Holland and even in Scotland), your knife is not welcome here!

[Graham]

When I was last in San Antonio I wanted to take the elevator to the top of the Americas Tower, I wore a swiss army knife on my belt as I always do....well, the elevator attendant (dressed up like she was a policewoman, with uniform, badge, belt - all but a gun) took it from me, gave to security and said I could retrieve it before I left.

I don't know how a sgian dubh would have been treated.

..not as dramatic as philibeg's story, but I found it all amusing.

I like to carry a knife, but as a useful tool, a sgian dubh is hardly that, it's just decoration, and as such I agree with the idea of a plastic one.

[macwilkin]

Here in the Midwestern US, pocket knifes are a way of life -- heck, I have my Swiss Army knife with me even as we speak, and I used to carry it all the time when doing the ranger thing. You will also see some fellows wearing larger Buck knifes (a kind of folding knife) in small pouches on their belt.

I can't say I've ever had a real problem with my sgain dhu; I was only asked to remove it one time, and that was at the state capitol building in Jefferson City in 2000 at the Tartan Day celebrations, but the capitol gendarmes were very friendly & did respect the reason why we were carrying them.

The Sikhs are running into similar problems, as members of the Kalhsa (sic?), an order of the Sikh religion, are required to carry a small dagger under their shirt for ceremonial reasons (to remind them to fight for social justice and freedom) -- a friend of mine who is a Sikh was talking about the growing number of incidents after 9/11.

Cheers,

T.

[Colin]

The Sikhs are running into similar problems, as members of the Kalhsa (sic?), an order of the Sikh religion, are required to carry a small dagger under their shirt for ceremonial reasons (to remind them to fight for social justice and freedom) -- a friend of mine who is a Sikh was talking about the growing number of incidents after 9/11.

Cheers,

T.

We had this same issue in Vancouver a few years ago. While I respect tradition, to my understanding the rules of those daggers, is that they should not be withdrawn unless they will draw blood. The kirpans also represent spiritual and temporal power within the Sikh symbol. I may be wrong on the intent and rules of the kirpans (did a google search, but didn't find what I was looking for), but if that is the intent, I see more issue with that than with a sgian dubh in the top of my hose.

An interesting read on the banning of kirpans by the British http://www.sikhcybermuseum.org/histo...Morcha1878.htm

[macwilkin]

We had this same issue in Vancouver a few years ago. While I respect tradition, to my understanding the rules of those daggers, is that they should not be withdrawn unless they will draw blood. The kirpans also represent spiritual and temporal power within the Sikh symbol. I may be wrong on the intent and rules of the kirpans (did a google search, but didn't find what I was looking for), but if that is the intent, I see more issue with that than with a sgian dubh in the top of my hose.

Not to get into Sikhism, which is not germane, but you are right about the spiritual aspects of the kirpan -- it is my understanding that they are not to really be used as weapons at all, since they are worn under the clothing, and not easy to get to, but rather serve as a symbol of the Sikhs fight for social justice and freedom, a reminder, and not something to actually use -- at one time, they were actually used that way, but now it is a symbol. Kind of like the ceremonial mace at the opening of Parliament or a legislative assembly. (only thing I can think of right now)

I would argue that the idea of a sgain dhu is purely ceremonial as well -- it represents a time when weaponry was needed for the defence of life & family, but has now been reduced to a symbolic state. Some may use other knifes that are utilitarian in nature with their kilt, but a "dress sgain dhu" is more ornament than weapon, although the local constabulary may have something to say about that! :mrgreen:

Just my two bob's worth...

Cheers,

[Rubber Soul]

I doubt mine would cause any problems with police, because the blade is not sharpened on me. The tip is pointy, but the blade is entirely dull, never was sharpened.

Thanks for all the input!