Evolution.....

[Archangel]

I think we've basically seen all we're going to see. The fashion will continue to ebb and flow from along the subdivision of the three models. pre-1780, post-1780 and 21Century. I see it becoming more acceptable as other artificial social barriers are broken down.
There will be extremes in length, pattern and material. We've seen that. There will be innovations. I saw R-kilts built in bottle holders and read about kilt pin grommets. The market will determine their permanence. Will the bottle holder work for everyone? The kilt pin grommet idea assumes a standard kilt pin design which doesn't exist, and our kilt personality doesn't really accept that kind of standardization. Inside apron pockets are practical for small things, uncomfortable with a wallet or knife and impractical for bottles or guns without additions support.
I would predict an evolution in computer generated patterns. The Saltire kilt is brilliant in concept and design. How compatible is the Star and Stripes in terms of people accepting it on their bums and sitting on it? What about the classic image of Che, or Marilyn, on the back of a kilt? Hmmn, Rolling Stone's tongue, bike logos, sport team logos, the Maple Leaf.

[Riverkilt]

Just got my copy of the Men in Skirts book. No doubt that the fashion designers are out there developing all kinds of looks for men in the unbifurcated world. Limiting it to kilts limits it to kilts.

Jeez, I'm 60 and so hooked on the comfort that I have two Macabi River Skirts and about 8 sarongs to supplement my kilt collection.

I have yet to develop the guts, support, etc to wear a riverskirt to Safeway...let alone a sarong.

Going from developing the products to getting men to wear the product in public is a leap.

I'd love to see "working kilts" replace jeans.

Ron

[Dreadbelly]

Just got my copy of the Men in Skirts book. No doubt that the fashion designers are out there developing all kinds of looks for men in the unbifurcated world. Limiting it to kilts limits it to kilts.

Jeez, I'm 60 and so hooked on the comfort that I have two Macabi River Skirts and about 8 sarongs to supplement my kilt collection.

I have yet to develop the guts, support, etc to wear a riverskirt to Safeway...let alone a sarong.

Going from developing the products to getting men to wear the product in public is a leap.

I'd love to see "working kilts" replace jeans.

Ron

Ron. I am half your age. But I am supremely confident that if I had a Macabi skirt, I could wear it to the grocery store. In the strangling ultra conservative Bible belt.

Come on... You can do it! Somebody has to lead or provide us youngins an example.

Do we Scots ever shy away from a battle because me might get a boo boo? This is no different. Go in there and be your self.

[Riverkilt]

Thanks Dread,

God I love this board. See, here I am in the boonies with nary a kilt about, let alone a skirt - in town.

I did have the courage to wear it down in Supai Village in the Grand Canyon on the Havasupai Reservation...blew the young warriors away...a lot of tentative, but respectful questions.

So, maybe I'll try a hike to the Horseshoe Bend overlook and test the waters with the tourists first.

Trick is to stand tall and proud and act like its the most normal thing in the world....

Hmmmm Macabi skirt at work....that would test the agency's commitment to diversity.....

An impish mind can be a fun thing to unleash...

Ron

[eighties]

I'd like to see more traditional looking kilts with POCKETS!

There has been a lot of experimenting with different fabrics (my personal preference will always be for wool since it has the swing and holds the pleats better than anything). I do have some PV and Acrylic that provide cooler wear in the Southern summers. The average person doesn't know or care that they aren't wool. As synthetics continue to get better more alternatives may open up. Last but not least, a reduction in price as this would open the market up to more people. Better synthetics and mass production could make that happen but is it realistic?

I think another question here is as kilts evolve will they become mainstream? There have been some attempts to mainstream kilts and other unbifurcated male garments but they never seemed to take hold. Needless to say, the more common they become, the more new spins on the designs.

[Doc Hudson]

Inside apron pockets are practical for small things, uncomfortable with a wallet or knife and impractical for bottles or guns without additions support.

Not trying to be arguementative, but I disagree.

When wearing my Pittsburgh Kilt, I ALWAYS have either my wallet, or my Smith & Wesson M-640, and a memo pad in the underapron pocket. I find it very comfortable, and the added weight ensures the underapron modestly drops between the legs when seated, and comfortingly weights the underapron in windy conditions.

BTW, in regards to putting a bottle in the underapron pocket, I agree with the impracticality comment, unless the "bottle" happens to be a flat sporran or hip flask.

This is MY experience, and opinion (which has been echoed by others). Your mileage may vary.

[Archangel]

Not trying to be arguementative, but I disagree.

When wearing my Pittsburgh Kilt, I ALWAYS have either my wallet, or my Smith & Wesson M-640, and a memo pad in the underapron pocket. I find it very comfortable, and the added weight ensures the underapron modestly drops between the legs when seated, and comfortingly weights the underapron in windy conditions.

BTW, in regards to putting a bottle in the underapron pocket, I agree with the impracticality comment, unless the "bottle" happens to be a flat sporran or hip flask.

This is MY experience, and opinion (which has been echoed by others). Your mileage may vary.

It's not argumentative when you're not challenging anybody's opinions and experiences. It's discussion when you bring more information into the mix.
So, my kilt has a pocket in it, it's about the size of the old UK passport, it was suggested it might be for the paybook. I don't know what size that was or if either the British Army or Canadian army use a paybook. I tend to doubt it. I tried carrying my wallet in it but it was really uncomfortable to have it bouncing of my leg. I tried my skean dhu but after ten minutes, I remembered Murphy's Law and took it out of there.
I have seen a war era kilt that had a diagonal pocket in the apron. It was suggested that was for a bottle or a handgun. Rejected the bottle idea as dangerous, same as you did. The handgun didn't seem credible unless the kiltie was relatively stationary. I just can't see running or combat with a handgun in the apron. I'm picturing the British Army revolver, which looks pretty heavy. I know the Germans and US had lighter, better models.
(an aside: grandfather was issued a handgun. Special need outside of rank privilige since he was attached to the front line vet corp looking after horses.)
I am (respectfully) curious. Tell me about how you carry a gun in the apron, please. Is there a factory option vs. your own modification? What about movement: is it practical for combat? Does a light gun become a modern day skean dhu?
(oh, and forgive this civvy for saying gun everytime, my bro hates that but I'm not going to type the full term every time when we know what we're talking about.)

[Doc Hudson]

The pocket is the standard angled under-apron pocket available on Pittsburgh Kilts. IIRC, I asked Jeff to add an inch in width and depth. On retrospection, I could have let him use his standard pocket design.

The revolver I carry most often is a Smith & Wesson Model 640. This is a small frame, five-shot .357 Magnum revolver with a 2 1/8" barrel, and weights about 30 ounces loaded. Here is a link to the specifications of the revolver: http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com...sw_activeTab=1 Mine has skinny wooden grips rather than the oversized rubber grips S&W provides.

Carry in the apron pocket is not quite as accessable as in a pants pocket or on a waist holster, but it is more convienent than carry in the deep side pockets.

Speaking of the side pockets, they are deep enough to carry a full sized service revolver. Either my 4" Smith & Wesson M-686, or my 4.75" Italian Single Action Army Revolver fit easily in the side pockets, without being obvious.

Draw from any concealment is slower than draw from an openly carried belt holster. That is a given. The simple fact that a person HAS a weapon, and the ability to use it is more important than speed. Think about it, how many muggers would expect a guy wearing a kilt to reach into his kilt and pull a revolver? Off hand, I'd say that concealing a revolver in a kilt pocket is easier than concealing the same weapon in a pair of tight jeans, and wearing the same shirt.

I don't know that I'd equate the Concealed Handgun with the modern skean dubh. After all, unless in uniform, at a match, or among close friends, the handgun tends to be concealed, in true black knife fashion. The dressy ceremonial version of the skean dubh would be the equivalent of what some folks call a "Barbecue Gun," that is a flashy, often engraved, handgun with fancy grips and openly carried in a fancy habd carved and usually silver mounted gunbelt and holster. I know some folks who wear "Barbecue Guns" so expensively flashy that they'd have an apoplexy at the thought of actually shooting it.

In my experience, the movement is not excessive, and it does not bang into any tender parts of the anatomy. If I wore my kilt lower, or if I were slimmer, this might be a problem, but it would depend on the kilt, the person wearing it, and what he had in the pocket. Since Rule 1 of Gunfighting is: Have a Gun, I'd say that packing iron in a kilt pocket is a viable combat option. However, if I knew for a fact there was going to be a fight, I'd either not go, or bring a rifle and a couple of friends.

BTW, I agree that those British Army revolvers were big old clunky, ugly contraptions and the later ones were needlessly heavy for the anemic chambering they used. But even so, they are oddly appealing to us gun cranks. I'd dearly love to have one of the old .455 Webly MkVI's.

[mkmound]

. . . I'll have to agree that solids need to get away from the UtiliKilt and AmeriKilt look, and wander on over into the traditional realm. . .

I think we already have quite a few examples of that -- the Stillwater black heavyweight is one, and Hamish has quite a few solid colors and tweeds (which to me, gives a "solid" appearance from a distance). I believe most of his are from TFCK.

To paraphrase Miah from another post . . . darn small pocketbook!

Mark