Starting a kilt, got questions!

[Southern Breeze]

KCW-Thanks for mentioning the appendix,I tried to post a reply earlier but had internet trouble.The few questions that have come up while I work on my kilt have been answerd in your and Alan's posts.As long as you stay ahead of me,things will be okay.I'm making mine out of tan medium weight twill.So far,so good. :grin:

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

KCW-Thanks for mentioning the appendix,I tried to post a reply earlier but had internet trouble.The few questions that have come up while I work on my kilt have been answerd in your and Alan's posts.As long as you stay ahead of me,things will be okay.I'm making mine out of tan medium weight twill.So far,so good. :grin:

Southern Breeze,
Alan is the one who is ahead, I'm just making it up as I go along and hoping not to screwit up too badly. If you using a medium solid color twill, then you have a fabric that it probably similar to the blue one I am using, which I think is the greatest first choice for a kilt or the most damnable fabric in the world for a kilt depending on what stage I am at. I think that the gray material I bought it actually going to be a little easier. Since I bought double width material, I can mess up the first one in both fabrics and still have enough material to make one free of my initial mistakes.

Keep us informed on yor progress, and I will do the same. To date I have cut the material to the correct length, marked the apron edges and center pleat location. What I am struggling with, based on Barb's book, is how to lay out the pleats. The book assumes you will have a tartan that will dictate the pleat size, whether pleating to the sett or stripe, based on the amount o material you have and the person to be kilted. What I, and you, have is a set amount of material, that can be pleated in any number of ways. The hardest for me is determining how many pleats (leaning toward ~ 29). that would give me approx 29 pleats with a 3/4" pleat size. My concern is that the pleat depth will be too shallow. Have to try and see!

[richardljohnson]

Just got Barbara's book from the library, my question is, since she deals with tartan fabric, does it matter in making a kilt if you are not using tartan. I know that is unclear. What I mean is are there any things that should be done differently if you do not use a tartan. I am thinking about a solid color fabric, either a denim or cotton duck.

I've made around 20 'sports' kilts...well, OK, only 13 were really wearable! I found that a 2 inch visible pleat worked good for these. The secret of this was a 6 inch back pleat and a 4 inch top pleat. The top pleat would lay over the back pleat and give you a 2 inch visible pleat. Camo material is VERY verable. Be sure to wash first to get rid of the sizing and losen up some. I also sewed a knife edge on all the outer edges of the pleats. Here is a summary...

1. Cut the fabric about 1 inch longer than your measurements on length.
2. Use a ruler or cardboard template to mark pleat edges with tailors chaulk starting about 6 or more inches from the under aprons back edge (I used about 30 inches for a 44 inch kilt).
-suggestion- I did not worry about the front or under apron until last-
3. After marking about 20 pleat edges (practice fold and look at what you have done). This will give you 10 pleats (visible pleats and under pleats).
-comment- a tradition kilt has 'around' 25 pleats.
4. I would measure with practice fold and this and look for about 25-27 inches width on a 44 inch waist.
-comment- If you are like me the kilt will have to be about a inch longer in the back other wise it will rise up in the back and not get a good 'square' look. Some call this the 'beer belly cut'-
5. I would iron these folds (steam iron) to set a edge in the pleats.
6. Get out the machine and sew a knife edge on the outer and inner pleats (the inner is optional and take longer to sew but I like the way it lays). I have a guide which will give me about a 1/8th inch edge on this for a good knife edge.
-comment- This DOES NOT give any taper to the pleated portion. I cheat as you will see later..
7. Lay out the fabric and fold the sections closed and take a break. Remeasure to check to make sure you don't have add any pleats. Pin pleats and measure up from the bottom 2/3 (IE if length is to be 24 inches measure UP 16 inches) and mark a line with tailors chaulk. From this line UP to the top will be where you will sew down to set the pleats. (In theory this should fall right about the top 1/2 of the butt curve).
-comment- Here I tack down sewing as close to the knife edge of the pleat as possible from the line up.
8. If you look at things now you will have a pice of cloth-pleated section-piece of cloth. At this point you can wrap it around you and see if the sides hit you right.
9. At this point I had my wife line up the back bottom to square the line and mark the waist line on back and side. Mine ended up about an inch higher in the center of my back.
-suggestion- get a belt and drape the kilt around you holding it inplace and marking with chaulk.
9a. After this I would make darts in the sides to CHEAT on the taper. Pin and check fit.
-suggestion-do this regimental, over pants this will create a slighly bulky feel and the dart will not be as accurate.
NOTE: If the darts are alot you can also take some from sides and off center of the back.
10. CHECK AND DOUBLE CHECK before sewing darts(inside) and then I cut off excess.
11. The under apron and over apron will need to be fixed. I usually did about a 2 inch taper from top to bottom BUT again pin and check. The inner edges of the aprons will be folded under at an angle. You will have to fold under and hem the edges of this as they will dip down below the sides of the kilt.
-comment- At this point you should have a more traditional look to the kilt layed open.
12. Fold under and sew the outer edges of the aprons.
13. The moment of truth.....fit again and check to top of the kilt belting it in place and HAVE SOME ELSE square off the kilt. Next, trim off the top excess.
-NOTE- If you talke off too muchoff the top you can correct by makeing a wider waist band
14. Cut a strip of cloth 3 inches wide for a 1 inch waist band 1/2inch folded under-1 inch outer-1 inch inner and 1/2 inch fold under. Adjust for wider waist band.
15. Pin the waist band making sure your sewing will attach both sides around the top of the kilt. Fold in and sew the ends of the waist band.
-NOTE-I like a FIRM wasit band so you could use any 'cheat' technique here.
16. Make belt loops and sew on and then get HOOK AND LATCH (velco) WITHOUT ADHEASIVE (this will gumm up the machine on sewing). I like 1 inch wide. Fit again and mark where you want the hook and latch. Sew it on and add any extras.
-suggestion- I ended up using hook and latch on the inner apron inner side and the outer apron outside getting some nylon webbing and snap latches to give it a 'fun' traditional look.

I think I put all the steps in BUT if I did not it will be evident as you work it.

There are also some other modifications BUT I'll let you discover those as you go...
Richard-

[Southern Breeze]

Heres my progress to date.I've got everything marked and measured and I've juusst started sewing.When you do start sewing,always remember the Tailors Prayer-Dear Lord,please don't let me screw this up. :grin:

[The Wizard of BC]

Just a note of a potential problem using Barb's book when planning a kilt made from Cotton and/or Poly/Cotton fabrics.

Wool when woven, is capable of being stretched, tugged, and pulled into a shape that is almost impossible with the Cottons and Poly/Cottons that are normally used in Contemporary kilts.

In Barb's book she gives the shape of the apron a gentle "S" curve. This shape will be very difficult to achieve in some other fabrics. Expecially if you plan large or deep 'Back Pleats' behind the aprons.

You may find that a straight edged "A" shape will need to be used with these fabrics.

If you then have the 'Back Pleats', you will need to 'Fabric Mould' the inside to achieve a smooth and flat 'in' pleat behind the aprons.

[Southern Breeze]

Thanks for the fabric tip.I had a feeling the stiffer cotton might be a problem.Now I know how to deal with it if it shows up.I'm using dollar a yard twill
from Wal-mart so if I have to scrap this one, its no biggie.

[Barb T]

Hi guys

Steve's right - wool is "shapeable" and cotton isn't. If I were doing a kilt in something other than wool, I'd try to keep the apron as straight as possible and put a lot of the shaping in the pleats part of the kilt between the hips and waist (where I could, if I needed to, even clip the pleats along the inside of the fell where it will be covered by the lining).

As far as making a solid color kilt goes, as several have mentioned, there's an appendix in my book on modifying the main instructions if you don't have tartan. Determining the number of pleats is easy if you know how big you want your pleats to be. If you want your kilt to look like a trad kilt, pleats should be somewhere between 3/4" and 1" at the hips. Once you've determined how wide across the pleats will be by splitting the hip measurement, just divide. If the back of the kilt needs to be 22" across at the hips, divide by, say 3/4", and that will give you 29 pleats. If you divide by 7/8", you'd have 25 pleats.

The repeat in light weight tartan typically ranges from 5-6.5", and in medium to heavy weight tartan from 7-10". The easiest thing to do with a solid color kilt, if you want it to have pleat depths typical of a trad kilt, is pick a number that's typical of tartan repeat and mark pleats that far apart (e.g., put marks 8" apart, which will, give pleats that are roughly 4" deep). How much cloth will that use? 8" x the number of pleats you need once you've decided on the pleat width.

I'd leave all the fabric "attached" until you get the kilt pleated. It's not a problem, and, if you've made an error in marking, you won't have cut it too short.

Barb

[Alan H]

Alan, how did you do the pleating? I know that you just "guesstimated" on the number of pleats you wanted and then worked with what you had, but did you make a template of some kind, or just fold over each pleat, measure to insure the correct reveal, and stitch it down?

Yup. That's exactly what I did. No template. I just got out the ruler and started pleating. I knew I had more material that I knew what to do with so I just went for it.

BTW, I wore my canvas kilt to work yesterday. Never again. The pleats were a TOTAL mess after a full day of..in the car..sit down, stand up, crawl around...sit down, stand up.

A Mess... I will chalk this one up as a learning experience, so I'm OK with it, but my recommendation is to NOT make a kilt out of Carhart canvas.

[Southern Breeze]

I did my pleats the same way Alan did-grabbed a ruler and started pleating.
Barb-thanks for the additional tips.
I plan on making several more kilts out of Carrhart canvas.Since I'll be mostly standing while wearing them,their should'nt be any problems.My main reason for making my own kilts is to have some that are relativly inexpensive.That way I can wear them while working at a forge and not worry about what happens to them.

[Alan H]

I did my pleats the same way Alan did-grabbed a ruler and started pleating.
Barb-thanks for the additional tips.
I plan on making several more kilts out of Carrhart canvas.Since I'll be mostly standing while wearing them,their should'nt be any problems.My main reason for making my own kilts is to have some that are relativly inexpensive.That way I can wear them while working at a forge and not worry about what happens to them.

EH? How do you keep the pleats from going to H* in a handbasket during the day?