Some interesting tartan info

[Valencian Kilted]

Peter Berrisford Ellis is a well known scholar and has written several books on the Celts, the source of most Gaelic tradition including the Brehon Laws. I'd have to pour back through my tomes, but I "thought" that chiefs were allowed a cloak of up to 5 colors, and that Druids. Bards, and Brehons were permitted a cloak of 6 colors. In the 4th century in Ireland Christianity began to exert a much greater sway with the populace, and the people began to "blend" the old and the new, with little heard of Druids after the 11th century, Brehon law untill the 16th century, and the Bardic arts into the 17th century. These are simply rough numbers based on my readings and I sure could be off a 100 years or so in any direction (IIRC, Boru held Druidic Advisors as well as Churchmen, Grania Ni Maille was married according to Brehon Law [the second time], and the O'Sullivan's march to Ulster was rumoured to have had a Bard).

It seems that the greatest threats to the traditional Gaelic way of life were not the English (although they were not without some blame), but the irreconcileable differences with the Roman or Latin interpretation of Christianity in the Isles folllowing the Synod of Whitby.

Bryan...hopelessly Pelagian...

... Well,... I agree with you that maybe the rejection of other simbols, rituals, etc,... from the Roman Catholic Church, can be responsible of such threats to the gaelic way of life, but as far as I know, (being myself a roman catholic) the traditions and indentity feelings of the population of the british isles were under a bigger danger during the cultural assimilation process promoted from the British Crown along centuries. I think that religion is not at all related to the way you dress or the way you speak. Here on my homeland we still speak another language apart from spanish (Valenciano), and there are many more speakers of Gaelic in Ireland than in Scotland by far... and be sure that catholic church in Spain has been more powerful here or in Ireland than in Scotland!

I think that religion has been always an easy excuse to start arguing (and I point all of them, even my own "Roman style" of Christianity), but in this matter, it is not the key point of it. Cultural assimilation by force or other subtile ways have been much more effective making people "forget" in Scotland than the influence of Rome.

Anyway, not being religion at all the matter for this thread, don't take in consideration this opinion at all!

As far as my district tartan is quite full of colours can that be related with the past centuries when my homeland was also a kingdom?:mrgreen:

Cheers to all! ¡Salud!

T O N O

[flyv65]

... Well,... I agree with you that maybe the rejection of other simbols, rituals, etc,... from the Roman Catholic Church, can be responsible of such threats to the gaelic way of life, but as far as I know, (being myself a roman catholic) the traditions and indentity feelings of the population of the british isles were under a bigger danger during the cultural assimilation process promoted from the British Crown along centuries. I think that religion is not at all related to the way you dress or the way you speak.

I agree almost entirely about speech and dress: however, with the structuring of the Catholic Church (in Europe) to follow the dogma espoused by St Augustine of Hippo a number of tenets in gaelic life were suddenly in conflict with the new teachings of the church, including the status of women within society, their ability to own property, Original Sin, well, quite a few other things as well.

As for cultural assimilation by the English, I'd say that it would be much more effectively defined as financial strangulation: certainly for the Scots when the crowns were consolidated, and for the Irish since the 1400's when England viewed Ireland both as a source of raw materials and as a buffer state, held prevent her enemies from gaining a foothold at England's back door. Culturally, both lands have done a fine job of assimilating the peoples planted on their soil and making them more Gael than than Angle, Saxon, Jute, or Norman.

Bryan...but as we've both said, there is no one single reason...