Sett size and pleat depth...

[Splash_4]

That idea sounds good. It would prevent the back from being completely white and show some pink through.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

I will definitely be posting pictures when it is done. This is going to be a fun project. Hoping to complete it by Valentine's day and then the missus and I can hopefully have a nice dinner alone.

Anyway, all advice is welcome, especially yours Barb as I have your book right next to me while doing this. I had read it about a year ago and then never started a kilt, so I am refreshing my memory.

Anyway, here is what I am planning, so let me know if it sounds wrong. I am working with a 33" waist and 39" hips. I was planning on 17"/16" split at the waist and a 19"/20" split at the hips (apron/pleats). 20 pleats with a 1" reveal will handle the pleats and take 180" of material. Then I will need 38" for the under and overaprons, and then I figured 10" each for the deep left pleat and the reverse pleat on the right.

So, 38" + 20" + 180" = 238" which is 6.6 yards. I have a shade over 6.5 yards. So, I am thinking I could cheat a little on the deep left pleat, and the right reverse pleat. I also thought I could possibly make the first and last pleat a single sett, instead of the double. If neither of those work out, the fabric is double-width, so I can certainly join it and go from there. Will pin it up and see how it works out. I also realize that the apron sizes I mentioned above are finished, so I need a little bit extra to finish the edges.

W2F, your idea sounds good as well, I might have to try that as well. Will show it to the wife first.

Here are some more pics with a scrap pleated to the stripe I am targeting. This is done with a double sett, as the bottom picture shows.

[Navyguy]

If you pleat it to the sett, it wont be too busy.???

[Barb T]

The splits sound fine, but I don't think you can get away with 38" for the apron and underapron. Each is 19" at the hips but will flare at least 1.5" on each side. So, you'll need a total of 22" for each, for a total of 44". With 20 pleats (180") and 238" of fabric available, that leaves only 58"/2=29" each for the apron and underapron. That's just barely enough for a deep pleat, with nothing left over for the fringe edge facing. You might need to cut the number of pleats a bit.

But, if you do, you might wind up with a pleat that has to be big enough that it will "leak over" into the next white stripe on each side (kind of like the one in your test pinning on the very left that has the ghost of the next white stripe on the left edge). I don't think you want that, because it will be very hard to do perfectly and might also look odd with a little white at the edges of the pleats. So, again, you'll need to do a little testing. These are the pleasurable frustrations of laying out a kilt!

You _could_ alternate setts, but I guess I'd have to say that trad kilts are either pleated to the sett or to the same stripe, but not alternating ones. Doesn't mean you can't do it, but, to a kiltmaker, it wouldn't look "right".

Personally, I think the best solution would be to make a few of the pleats single-sett depth, as you suggested in your post. I did the reverse once, when I had a kilt that had a huge A-B-A-C sett that someone wanted pleated to the sett. If I had used the full sett, the max number of pleats I could have gotten would have been 14 pleats! I could "cheat the pleats" on almost all of them by going over only 1/2 a sett, but about every 6th pleat, I needed the full sett. So, I wound up with a respectable # of pleats. It looked a shade odd on the inside, but no one looking at the _outside_ of the kilt would ever notice.

I also made one once that had a very small sett but someone had given me 7 yards and wanted all of the tartan in the kilt. It was too much tartan for pleating to the single sett and too little for pleating to the double sett. So, I think I alternated shallow and deep pleats or something like that. Again, it wasn't noticeable unless someone was walking and you looked really carefully.

Gonna be a nice-looking kilt when you get it all sorted out!

Barb

[Barb T]

If you pleat it to the sett, it wont be too busy.???

If you pleat it to the sett, it will look exactly the same as the tartan. So, no, unless you think that the tartan itself is busy!

B

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Thanks Barb. I did forget about the additional flare below the hips. I, and more importantly my wife, really like the look of the center white stripe centered on the pleat with no other elements on the back, so I am going to stay with the number and size of pleats. Additionally, since I have solid pink on both sides, the tapering should be completely invisible except on close inspection. The white peeking out with a slightly larger reveal would look odd to me.

I am going to actually lay the whole length of fabric out tonight and rip it (actually cut, I have not been able to rip it at all!) to width. Then I will take a true measurement of how much I have and go from there. If I'm real close, I will just make a few shallower pleats, but if I am way off, I will join another piece in.

However, Barb in one of my daughter's kilts, I made the join at the bottom of the last pleat on the right and that became the material for my reverse pleat and the underapron. I realize that is not the traditional way, but is there any reason not to do that? It just allows me to work with a single piece of fabric for as long as possible. And I want to keep the other half of the material as long as possible so I can make kilts for my daughters.

Oh, and this won't be entirely traditionally made. As you state in your book, us lefties are out of luck when trying to follow the traditional sewing methid, so this will be machine sewn, although the thread is a perfect match and will only be visible on very close inspection.

Wait, I have one more question, my wife wants this to fasten right over left in the manner of a women's skirt. Is there any construction difference, other than swapping the strap and buckle arrangements?

Thanks!

[Barb T]

Sounds good. As far as where to put the join, it certainly doesn't have to be in the center back. I just keep going until I've used up the first piece and put the join in whatever pleat comes next.

If you want to have the apron wrap left instead of right, you really need to do everything in mirror image (which actually would work well for hand sewing by a leftie!!). Otherwise, the pleats will open toward the apron, rather than away from the apron, and you'll have an inverted pleat at the edge of the apron and a deep pleat, rather than an inverted pleat, at the edge of the underapron. I think it would look odd not to completely reverse everything.

B

[The Wizard of BC]

OH WOW!!! This is going to be a first!!!! I'm gonna disagree with the master herself!!!!

Barb, I have done a couple of right over left apron kilts and there is really no need to reverse the pleats. Everything works fine. In fact with the pleats facing right over left the apron looks quite good. The only problem I found is the right edge of the new under apron sometimes catches on the underside of the reverse pleat in a stiff wind or if you run or dance.


and KCW, when your laying out your pleats there is one place you should never skimp and that is with the depth of the deep pleat and the reverse pleat. Sacrifice pleat depth in the back of the kilt if you must to retain the deep and reverse pleats as deep as possible.

[Barb T]

Glad to know! I would have thought it would look odd. So, go for it KCW.

Thanks Steve!!

Barb

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Well, just to keep things going. I did pleat it up last night and will definitely have to add some more material, or have about 4 shallow pleats. Still deciding. And thanks Steve for chiming on the pleats. I had already determined that I wanted to keep them deep, they really come into play with having it hang well in front when sitting. I will have to decide if I reverse everything. I had wondered that myself, but was going to just try it by swapping the aprons but leaving the pleats as in a traditional man's kilt.

Now for the biggest hurdle, I test fitted the kilt on my wife last night. Just wanted to wrap it around her so I could see what the pleats would look like and see if they came around as far as my calculations indicated. They pretty much did. I did not pin in the taper at the waist, just the hip measurement. So, she is standing there, likes the pleats, then says "Wow, this is heavy, is it supposed to be like that? I am not sure I like it..". Aauuuggghhhh! So I explained how much material is in a kilt and the deep pleats add weight but also give it the nice swing factor, etc.. She was not buying it. I even said that once it was tapered the weight would spread better and be better supported. Still not buying it, so I offered to make shallower pleats to reduce the weight. What a letdown. Have any of our lady kilt wearers experienced or had similar thoughts about the weight of a kilt?

Anyway, here are some pics of it pleated up with the deep pleats. I may finish this one as is, and make her another one with shallow pleats. Anybody need a pink kilt?