Irish Need Not Apply

[cessna152towser]

The organisers do sound like a bunch of bigoted, gross incompetents, as they let their own petty prejudices spoil what should be a happy event. With that sort of attitude I'd expect people will begin to stay away in droves and unless they get a better management committee these games will no longer exist in a few years time. We would welcome a few more tents at our local games here in Hawick, regardless of whether they are run by Scots or not.

[MysticMead]

reminds me of the signs my dad talks about from when he was a kid... "Irish and dogs keep off the grass"

We're all Celts.... maybe they should open their eyes to the real problem

[macwilkin]

Before I begin my post, let me just say up front that I mean no disrespect or offense to Michael or any of our Irish members on the board. However, this thread is becoming a "dogpile" on the Caledonian Club without the other side of the story being heard, and since there are two sides to every story, so I will put on my "devil's advocate" bonnet now...

I reviewed the Caledonian Society's web site, and specifically, their rules for clan organizations. While not a member of that group, the Caledonian Club of SF has been around since 1856, and if I remember correctly from Emily Donaldson's "The Scottish Highland Games in America", the SF/Pleasanton games are some of the oldest in the nation. ( Szasz's "Scots in the North American West" mentions games being held in the Bay area in 1889.)

With so much history of promoting a “Scottish Event” can see their point of view why they would not want them to become a "Celtic fest". The focus of their organization is on Scottish heritage and history.

Then there is the whole issue of "Irish clans"; whilst there are Irish clan/family societies, the issue of Irish Chiefs is a bit of a "sticky wicket" thanks to the MacCarthy Mor hoax back in late 90's:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmur...iefs/index.htm

Sean Murphy was the Irish genealogist who exposed the MacCarthy Mor hoax. Now, let me just say here again I am not implying that Michael's organization or Michael himself are in the same ilk as Terrence MacCarthy; on the contrary.

On his web page, Mr. Muprhy makes this statement:

In response largely to the Mac Carthy Mór hoax and its own entanglement in same, the Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland in July 2003 terminated the procedure of recognising Gaelic chiefs by courtesy, abandoning genuine and bogus claimants alike. This decision has created a vacuum in which questionable claimants to chiefship have emerged to declare themselves, free from the necessity to produce rigorous genealogical proofs.

-- http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmur...iefs/index.htm

This may be the real reason as to why the Caledonian Club is not allowing Irish "clans" to attend the games. This statement in the clan/society rules on the club's website:

In accepting applications we are guided by the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs; The Court of The Lord Lyon and the publication “Scottish Clan & Family Encyclopedia” by George Way of Plean & Romilly Squire. Furthermore, we wish to advise you that preference will be given to entities that are recognized by their Clan Chief &/or National President.

-- http://www.caledonian.org/images/Clan_Rules.doc

Regardless of their rules or reasoning it is too bad they didn’t offer a kinder or more diplomatic response. If they decided a change in policy it would have been a simple courtesy to inform previous of this change. Personally, as an advisor to local games myself, I would not have handled it this way. And for the record, the games I advise does not prohibit Irish organizations from attending.

The Pleasanton Games are said to be one of the largest and best in the world. I hope this doesn’t preclude you enjoying them. Wear your Irish colors with pride.

And let me just say again: these thoughts are my own; I do not claim to speak for the Caledonian Club, only offering my experience as a genealogical librarian, historian, and clan liason for a local games. They are not meant to offend or insult.

Regards,

Todd

[pipesndrumsnun]

In honor of my proud and delightful Irish grandmother, I say!!

And my niece, the Hibernian Princess, would surely say :!!

[pipesndrumsnun]

What ridiculous nonsense! Perhaps a lovely article detailing the situation and sent to the local newspaper or television news would help?
OR, a good, swift :buttkick:!!

[highlander_Daz]

looking at the website http://www.caledonian.org/games/gath...ftheclans.html

they all appear to be americans not a Scot amongst them,

The chair a mr. Biggar has a lowland name, why are Irish Barred but people of lowland descent allowed? after all it is a highland games.

I wouldnt attend any event that descriminates against any ethnic group in any way. anyone who has visited Scotland or Ireland know that they are guaranteed ad warm welcome here, how dare a group of foreigners hijack our traditions and then turn them on their head.

"theres no welcome like a Highland welcome"!

[highlander_Daz]

perhaps I will clarify my post above I use the word "foreigner" as a description of someone who is of Scots descent but a citizen of another country, and not to insult the people who live around the world whos heart pumps Scots blood with pride.

having some Irish blood makes me very upset that anyone would be excluded, after all whats a party without the Irish?

perhaps it should be brought home to the organisors of the event that claims to uphold Scots traditions that- discrimination of any discription on the basis of race creed or colour is illegal in Scotland under the race relations act.

I would be interested in a respose to our concerns by a representitaive of this event?

I hope that citizens of all countries of scots/irish descent or otherwise are not offened by the word "foreigner"
Daz

[Clockwork John]

Everyone who can go should wear green, get nice and drunk, and make a mess of the place. THAT will teach them to try to keep the Irish out!

[macwilkin]

Everyone who can go should wear green, get nice and drunk, and make a mess of the place. THAT will teach them to try to keep the Irish out!

I'm sorry, but isn't that being just a wee bit stereotypical and insulting to the Irish? Not to mention ruining a good time for many spectators who have no idea of this particular incident?

If you disagree with the actions of the games committee, then do so in an adult manner. And yes, I know -- you're just joking, but sometimes jokes aren't appropriate.

I reserve judgement on this matter until we hear the whole story.

Regards,

Todd

[highlander_Daz]

lets get it from the horses mouth and lets be civil

http://www.caledonian.org/contactus.html