Black Watch

[ChromeScholar]

From what I've read, there's evidence that the Campbells were using Black Watch before it was a military tartan, and Black Watch may have been adopted because the a Campbell was commanding the force.

[macwilkin]

From what I've read, there's evidence that the Campbells were using Black Watch before it was a military tartan, and Black Watch may have been adopted because the a Campbell was commanding the force.

I wouldn't take much stock in that; see Matt's articles above.

Todd

[Clockwork John]

Well, regardless of who used it first, I wear it with pride since it is my family tartan.

[Clan Sutherland]

Well this gets a bit complicated doesnt it ? Hope I can keep it all straight

[Clan Sutherland]

So is the Black Watch Tartan associated with the Clan Sutherland somehow ?

[sirdaniel1975]

So is the Black Watch Tartan associated with the Clan Sutherland somehow ?

The Sutherland's were a Hanoverian (Government) force during the Jacobite Rebellion. (anti-Jacobite) They as well as the forces of Clan Gunn and MacKay were enlisted during this time. (All 3 were somewhat neighbors) Eventually there would be the Sutherland and Argyll Highlander's. (look up the painting "The thin Red Line") Their tartan was the Government sett. The Sutherland district tartan is also the Government sett. (This should be in Matt's articles)

Here is a free online book on the Black Watch.

Here is a website for Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.

[macwilkin]

The Sutherland's were a Hanoverian (Government) force during the Jacobite Rebellion. (anti-Jacobite) They as well as the forces of Clan Gunn and MacKay were enlisted during this time. (All 3 were somewhat neighbors) Eventually there would be the Sutherland and Argyll Highlander's. (look up the painting "The thin Red Line") Their tartan was the Government sett. The Sutherland district tartan is also the Government sett. (This should be in Matt's articles)

Here is a free online book on the Black Watch.

Here is a website for Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.

The book District Tartans by Teall and Smith discusses the Sutherland District Tartan and its connection to the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, as I mentioned before.

Here's another quote from the Scottish Military Historical Society's article on tartans:

The regiment which became the 2nd Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, was raised in 1800 as the 93rd (Sutherland) Highlanders and like the 91st wore the official military tartan, as did several Auxiliary units raised in the district. The association with Sutherland is another case, where the universal military tartan has been given "clan" or "district" significance and this sett when worn by the 93rd has been referred to as "Sutherland Tartan". It is true that this version also adopted by the amalgamated regiment (91st/93rd), was somewhat lighter in shade than that worn by the 42nd, but it was nevertheless still the regulation pattern of military tartan and called "Black Watch" officially.

Regards,

Todd

[M. A. C. Newsome]

There was at one point a fairly hot debate in the tartan world regarding who was using this tartan first, the Black Watch regiment or the Clan Campbell. However, historical evidence was always on the side of the tartan being a new design for the Black Watch, and recent research by Jamie Scarlett has pretty much settled the issue. This tartan is definitely military in origin, and has been adopted by others, including Clan Campbell, because of their affiliation with the regiment.

Unfortunately, a lot of people get their tartan information from older books that will still contain speculation that this tartan was originally a clan tartan. I think the motivation being this argument was the prevailing sentiment that clan tartans were an ancient part of Scottish tradition, one that predated the establishment of the Highland regiments. In fact, Scarlett makes a very good case in his Military Tartans book that it was the establishment of regimental tartans (mostly based on the Black Watch) that helped give rise to the notion of clan tartans. Basically, since military regiments were adopting uniform tartans, and some regiments were closely affiliated with clans, this helped to fix the association between clans and tartans.

Prime examples of this would be the Gordon and MacKenzie tartans, where there is a direct one to one correlation between regiment and clan. With the Black Watch there is a larger connection with other clans besides Campbell, though this is the most famous one. The Campbells use the Black Watch tartan (not necessarily in lighter colors) as their standard clan tartan. Other clans, such as Munro and Grant, use it as a Hunting tartan.

From memory, here are some of the many names of the Black Warch tartan:
Black Watch
Government Sett
42nd
93rd
Sutherland district
Campbell clan
Grant Hunting
Munro Hunting

[macwilkin]

I'm still learning the history of many things Scottish, but if I'm correct it looks like my clan is closely associated with the Black Watch. Being a direct ancestor or numerous Sutherland men this is indeed a proud moment. I've looked at the Black watch site and it has only a little bit of historical info. Would anyone know where I could read up more on the regiment ? Perhaps there is a thread on it hidden somewhere on the forum

Many Thanks

Going back to the original post, but in terms of a regimental affiliation, I would say that the Clan Sutherland has more of a tie to the Argylls. Certainly, as Sir Daniel and others have mentioned, the Sutherlands did favor the Government in the Jacobite Rebellions and served in Government militias. But, from a recruiting perspective, the recruting area of the RHR/Black Watch had traditionally been around Peth, Angus and Fife. The 93rd recruited in the North of Scotland, including the Sutherland District.

Regards,

Todd

[sirdaniel1975]

The book District Tartans by Teall and Smith discusses the Sutherland District Tartan and its connection to the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, as I mentioned before.

Here's another quote from the Scottish Military Historical Society's article on tartans:



Regards,

Todd

I don't see anything where I mentioned shade.... I think I just said said sett.

Here's a link with the 42nd sett.

This one does not have the alternating single sett of double black stripes to double sett of double black stripes. Go here for example.

Peace,

Daniel