kilt in 1396?!

[sharpdressedscot]

Some things to point out. The idea of a kilt then, though not documented is plausible. There is Roman documentatuion of the migrating Celts (Keltoi by the Greeks) wearing a type of tartan material, to include descriptions of this from Ceasar during his exploits in Gaul (as we all know from Gallic, which is Roman for Celt). This is my cited source:

Herm, Gerhard, The Celts: The People Who Came Out of the Darkness. New York, N.Y., St Martin’s Press, 1977.

He used the primary sources of Ceasar, a Roman named Livy and a number of others. Good reading by the way....He only mentioned the Tartan as a cloak though clasped with a brooch.

They did find that wee scrap piece of tartan cloth near Hadrian's.
The Celts then were actually known for wearing TROUSERS! Ironic, ain't it?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Consider that this is not an academic article, and nothing he writes is footnoted, so one cannot very well go and check his source for saying there were "short kilts" worn in 1396. However, if one does look at his bibliography, what you find are popular histories, not scholarly works. The very first name on the list is Nigel Tranter, who was a fiction writer.

I tried reading his book about Somerled once and couldn't make it through the first few chapters. The reason why is that his description of their clothing was so incredibly inaccurate. He was describing these thirteenth century figures as wearing very modern Highland attire, complete with short kilts, sgian dubh, and the like. I tried telling myself that it was just historical fiction, and there were bound to be inaccuracies, but I just couldn't make myself imagine Somerled or his companions in the clothing that Tranter was describing them in!

So if this was his source for information about this tournament, it could explain a lot.

~M

[beowulf67]

At least at the bottom of the page when he mentions movies about Scotland, he notes that Braveheart isn't historically accurate. I guess thats something in his favor.

[pipesndrumsnun]

Hmmm...very interesting!

[Jaggy thistle]

the battle certainly happened but I would suggest that the combatents would have discarded their outer clothing and fought in their shirts which may have given them the apearance of wearing a kilt

[Galician]

the battle certainly happened but I would suggest that the combatents would have discarded their outer clothing and fought in their shirts which may have given them the apearance of wearing a kilt

But didn't the kilt come from the plaid worn over the shirt? So that would just the opposite of wearing a kilt, but then, as has been mentioned above, there's not a real demand for accuracy in the sources, so a general description of attire is enough for the writer.

[Ian.MacAllan]

There seem to be many people in this world who have no idea how to reason logically or how to distinguish between observation and inference. Many of these people simply assert what they want to believe, apparently in the belief that that is what everyone does., This I think is the origin of many of the fantasies about Highland dress, most of which appear to have originated in the 19th and 20th centuries.

As long as one does not take it seriously this is innocent romantic fun.

.

[TheKiltedWonder]

Tartan itself is old. In fact, mummies associated with the Tocharians of Western China were found with tartan fabric, which some ue to try and tie them to Europe's Celtic peoples.

[beloitpiper]

So I wrote an E-mail to the author, asking for the source, and here's the response I received:

Hi Gregory,

In "The Story of Scotland" Nigel Tranter writes on page 91: "the sixty stalwarts set to, before discarding all clothing save for the short kilt of philabeg". So, it wasn't normal dress; it was underwear. Alas, Tranter doesn't have sources for his book. May-be I should refrase it stating it's underwear. I didn't know the kilts weren't worn until much later. Interesting question, though.

Greetings,
Joan

Does anybody know about Tranter and his works?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Reference my previous post on the first page of this thread regarding Tranter and his "knowledge" of historic clothing.

Consider that this is not an academic article, and nothing he writes is footnoted, so one cannot very well go and check his source for saying there were "short kilts" worn in 1396. However, if one does look at his bibliography, what you find are popular histories, not scholarly works. The very first name on the list is Nigel Tranter, who was a fiction writer.

I tried reading his book about Somerled once and couldn't make it through the first few chapters. The reason why is that his description of their clothing was so incredibly inaccurate. He was describing these thirteenth century figures as wearing very modern Highland attire, complete with short kilts, sgian dubh, and the like. I tried telling myself that it was just historical fiction, and there were bound to be inaccuracies, but I just couldn't make myself imagine Somerled or his companions in the clothing that Tranter was describing them in!

So if this was his source for information about this tournament, it could explain a lot.