New Tank for an Old Tanker.

[McMurdo]

This will be the first "heavywieght" for me and I say tank. As an Armored Vehicle Crewman (MOS 19K40) I get to define what is (and is not) a tank, that is part of my job discription.

I now have an email from Stillwater indicating that it is in the post.

Additionally Stillwater has shipped a Gordon Tartan youth kilt to my daughter, if she likes it, I may get her a wool USMC kilt.

Fine go ahead and call it a tank, that does not make it a tank, we talk here about affordable kilts, kilts that come from Scotland, the US, Canada, Pakistan, etc. We also talk about educating new members, and recently there have been threads decrying the fact that some companies out there try to pass off their wares as real made in Scotland kilts, I'm just pointing out that a heavyweight kilt from Stillwater is not what we have come to call a tank, but hey it's a free world so go ahead add to the confusion.

[Chef]

This will be the first "heavywieght" for me and I say tank. As an Armored Vehicle Crewman (MOS 19K40) I get to define what is (and is not) a tank, that is part of my job discription.

If your talking armoured vehicles I would agree with you, but I agree with McMurdo here. As nice as the SWK heavyweight is it is not a tank. I have both so I think I can make a fair comparison. Also I think it is a good idea to keep the definitions straight to keep confusion at a minimum. I promise if you ever treat yourself to an 8 yard hand-sewn you will understand the difference.

Think of it this way. An 8 yd, hand-sewn is an M-1 Abrams and a SWK is an M-2 Bradley. Both nice to have, but only one real tank.

Anyway, enjoy the SWK heavyweight. For the money I think it is one of the best out there. If wool is what you prefer for a kilt (and I do), you won't find the equivalent for twice the price. The velcro on the left hip will work fine in fact it can allow more adjustment, and I like the idea of keeping the buckle as decorative. Enjoy.

[Sir Robert]

You made your point, but there are limits.

A true 16oz, 8 yard, hand sewn in Scotland kilt would be too heavy to wear, why do you think that they cut away the inside of the pleats above the hips on top-of-the line kilts? Weight reduction baby!

So will there be that much differance between a 16oz with 30% of the wool fabric cut away and 13 oz where they probably have not bothered? Yeah, and I do not claim otherwise. But is there much differance in overall weight? Is there much differance in hang?
Lastly to us cheepskate Scotsmen is there $400 USD differance?

Right now I do not beleive so.

My interests have led me to try sewing with wool and a (4 yards X 16oz) coat that I have made from an old wool army blanket is noticeably heavy. Eight yards? I don't think so Tim. Please keep in mind that a kilt is a blanket half.

As far as keeping our terminology straight among our selves ehh...Okay. I beleive that this Stillwater heavywieght is the heaviest of the affordable off the shelf kilts and as such is unquestionably a tank-like object. If I did not I would not be buying the sucker.

And don't get me started on the Bradley.

[Chef]

As far as keeping our terminology straight among our selves ehh...Okay. I beleive that this Stillwater heavywieght is the heaviest of the affordable off the shelf kilts and as such is unquestionably a tank-like object. If I did not I would not be buying the sucker.

I think you are absolutely correct in that aspect, but weight is only part of it. It is also the fit and the longevity that makes it a tank. First nothing off the rack can fit like a hand-sewn kilt. Unfortunately almost no one is the exact shape used to create an off the rack kilt. Second a well made hand-sewn garment is likely to last much longer. I have a kilt that was owned by my grandfather and other than changing the lining it is in perfect shape. It is at least 50 years old and someday my son will wear it. Is it possible that a SWK will last that long? Possible but I doubt it, if it gets worn much.

All that said I agree that the SWK heavyweight may be as good a kilt as you can get off-the-rack and you should enjoy it for many years.

And don't get me started on the Bradley.

Ok, I may have stretched a little to make my point. Personally I think I'd rather go into battle in a SWK Heavyweight than a Bradley. But that's another discussion.

[Bugbear]

Hope you enjoy.

[Nighthawk]

Let the Jonesing begin for there is a wool heavywieght on it's way from Stillwater.

This will be my seventh kilt and the nicest one to date. My previous nicest was a Stillwater black Shadow Tartan "standard" that was great.

One problem is size, Stillwater had for sale a 40" and a 46". My belly measures 43". So a strap move is in order. While I am doing that I am very seriously thinking of making the left side buckle decorative only and using velcro in the same manor as USAKilts makes theirs. Putting on a velcro kilt is a lot easier than a three buckle kilt.

What do you guys think?

Yeah, I have to move the straps on all of my SWK- my hips are hugely muscled, and the hip straps just don't work. That's the one thing I don't like about SWK. As to the velcro thing- I don't really care either way myself. I prefer the buckles, but it doesn't really matter I don't think.

[Sir Robert]

While the tailors can produce a tank, they can also produce kilts from lighter weight materials as well, so hand made does NOT necessarally mean tank, nor unfortuneately does it mean well made.

If you guys wish to set the definition of tank at 16oz or greater wool that is just fine with me but hand sewn is inferior to machine stiching and has been for 150 years.

I for one am quite unwilling to pay the labor for hand stiching when machines can do it better and faster thus less expensively.

Yes on my list of things to buy "someday" is a 19+oz, box pleated, 4 yard kilt by Matt so that I can snear down my nose at those who only wear 16oz tanks, but really... Are we not being silly?

[Chef]

While the tailors can produce a tank, they can also produce kilts from lighter weight materials as well, so hand made does NOT necessarally mean tank, nor unfortuneately does it mean well made.

Hand made does not mean tank by its self, it is only part of the definition. An 11oz handmade is not a tank. While there may be kiltmakers who do not make good kilts I would argue that at the cost they won't stay in business very long.

If you guys wish to set the definition of tank at 16oz or greater wool that is just fine with me but hand sewn is inferior to machine stiching and has been for 150 years.

Machine stitching is faster not superior. You can do things with hand stitching you just can't with a machine, but I'll let someone who's sewing skills are better than my explain exactly why. If machine stitched kilts were truly better no one would pay for hand stitching.

I for one am quite unwilling to pay the labor for hand stiching when machines can do it better and faster thus less expensively.

I'm unwilling to pay for a new car because I hate how they loose money instantly. I buy cars coming off of lease. We all make those kind of value decisions. as far as machines being better see above.

Yes on my list of things to buy "someday" is a 19+oz, box pleated, 4 yard kilt by Matt so that I can snear down my nose at those who only wear 16oz tanks, but really... Are we not being silly?

I don't believe it's about being snobbish. It's just a term that has been accepted here for a while (by the way the term tank referring to a heavyweight kilt has been around longer than just this forum). If you say tank, most on this forum will know what you are referring to, that's all. So no, I don't think we're being silly; having standard definitions is how the world manages to understand each other.

Other than not wanting to refer to the SWK heavyweight as a tank though, I don't think anyone has said anything negative about your choice. In fact I you have received nothing but positive remarks.

[macwilkin]

While the tailors can produce a tank, they can also produce kilts from lighter weight materials as well, so hand made does NOT necessarally mean tank, nor unfortuneately does it mean well made.

If you guys wish to set the definition of tank at 16oz or greater wool that is just fine with me but hand sewn is inferior to machine stiching and has been for 150 years.

I for one am quite unwilling to pay the labor for hand stiching when machines can do it better and faster thus less expensively.

Yes on my list of things to buy "someday" is a 19+oz, box pleated, 4 yard kilt by Matt so that I can snear down my nose at those who only wear 16oz tanks, but really... Are we not being silly?

If you think handsewn is "inferior", then best not to order from Matt.

I own two handsewn kilts, and believe me, you can certainly tell the difference. Gie me handsewn any day.

Todd

[Sir Robert]

Well it has arrived, my Stillwater Wool Heavyweight Black Watch tartan kilt.

Let us start with the weight, up close you can see that the wool is the same weight as the old Army Winter weight uniform material and is heavier that the wool in a set of dress blues.
I would have to rate it as medium-heavy. You guys were right and I was wrong. This is not a tank by any streach of the imaginiation. The wool is ultra soft and the hang is just right, thus it looks and feels great. I am happy with the compromise, best of both worlds. The look of the wool is rich in color with a soft flat finish.

The leather straps are of fair quality as are the buckles. When I move the buckles because of my constantly up and down sizing belly I will replace them untill then, they will do.

The size is dead on the size marked 46" adjustable out to 48". With Winter clothes on I will not have to move the straps. I ordered the kilt 3" oversize but neglected to figure in t-shirt and a heavy shirt so by a happy accident it fits perfectly out of the box.

The Kilt is pleated to the Sett and is just gorgeous.

The bottom edge of the material is perfect.

I bought some other stuff to go with the kilt because my other accessories are in storage.

The black leather sporran is okay for the price of $16.50.

The "Economy Sword Kilt Pin" is actually very nice for the price of $5.75. Try buying one at a "Celtic Gift Shop" and you will see what I mean.

I bought a Leather sporran strap and it is very nice for the $10.95 price and it goes well with the kilt buckles. It is adveritized at 45 inches, I would say 46" actually.

The kilt hose have a fancy top are a pale cream color that is pleasing to the eye. I just wish there were more colors available. The material is 25% wool,25% acrylic, 20% nylon, 30% polyester and feel like cotton to the touch.

The Black Watch flashes are just right, not too stiff nor too flimsy and they look good.

Total damages: $189.05