Flight School Inquiry

[berserkbishop]

I can give you some info on Canadian helicopter schools on the west coast (just PM me). You'll be talking about C$45,000 for a commercial license here.

Bizarrely, per hour, commercial training for helicopters in the UK is a little cheaper -- I am at a loss to explain why helicopter training is cheaper in UK, when fixed wing is more expensive there (I've done both).

That said, the number of flying hours required in the UK for a commercial helicopter license is higher than Canada, so it'll end up costing you more regardless.

Private flying licenses in UK, or US or Canada, can be exchanged with a simple bit of paperwork for private licenses in other countries. Commercial licenses require, I believe, flight and written tests in the new country, but all the training in the prior country qualifies (though I believe there is slow progress towards making them fully exchangeable also).

KP

Give me some names if you dont mind. I am just trying to do a bunch of research before I make any real decisions. I am hoping to get the heck outa Missouri, and I would like to see another country. I am getting info on a school in New Zealand as well!

BB

[McGurk]

As riverkilt says, choppers are inherently more dangerous.
Turn the engine on in a aeroplane, and the thing just wants to fly,
Turn the engine on in a helicopter, and the thing just wants to fly apart.

But then, its a trade off, in your chopper you can go anywhere hover and land where you please! (having said that, there are planes that can do just about the same!)

[KiltedPilot]

As riverkilt says, choppers are inherently more dangerous.
Turn the engine on in a aeroplane, and the thing just wants to fly,
Turn the engine on in a helicopter, and the thing just wants to fly apart.

When I did my fixed wing (aeroplane) training, the instructors would look out of the windows and remark how dangerous helicopters where. Then, when I did my helicopter training, I was surprised how many of the helicopter instructors looked out and remarked how dangerous aeroplanes were. Huh?

Then I started to gradually understand their viewpoint.

An engine failure in a light aeroplane requires locating a flat field with no obstacles close to 1500' long in order to land safely. In some parts of the country this is common, but in many it's very rare. A helicopter needs a tennis court.

I read recently that statistically a helicopter pilot is 4 times more likely than a light aeroplane pilot to walk away from an engine failure.

An emergency might not require a forced landing, just a precautionary landing away from the airfield -- say, due to unexpected adverse weather, running out of fuel, or mechanical failure. I've never come across a fixed wing instructor who has done an off airport (i.e. off runway) landing in a typical scenario (I know some who land on beaches). In my helicopter training I did hundreds of bush landings - it was routine.

When the wind rose, all the training aeroplanes were chained down, and their rudders locked. At the helicopter school, this was the time we practised power off landings to the ground. 25 gusting 35 was stuff of nightmares for light aeroplane pilots (many can fly slower than that, with flaps down), but it's great training weather for helicopter pilots. A great number of fixed wing accidents occur due to lose of control on landing because of wind.

Likewise, when flying fixed wing I'd break out in a sweat if I saw low cloud, or rain, or snow, or other features that might cause me to lose visibility. In mountainous terrain this is a frequent cause of accidents for fixed wing pilots. But in a helicopter training, I often flew below low cloud, in heavy rain, and with less than a mile visibility, or down valleys obscured with cloud -- it's just so easy to stop and turn around in a helicopter, or even land and wait for it to clear.

Helicopter are 10,000 moving parts all trying to do you harm, but when something goes wrong you often have more options to save yourself than when flying fixed wing.

KP

[berserkbishop]

When I did my fixed wing (aeroplane) training, the instructors would look out of the windows and remark how dangerous helicopters where. Then, when I did my helicopter training, I was surprised how many of the helicopter instructors looked out and remarked how dangerous aeroplanes were. Huh?

Then I started to gradually understand their viewpoint.

An engine failure in a light aeroplane requires locating a flat field with no obstacles close to 1500' long in order to land safely. In some parts of the country this is common, but in many it's very rare. A helicopter needs a tennis court.

I read recently that statistically a helicopter pilot is 4 times more likely than a light aeroplane pilot to walk away from an engine failure.

An emergency might not require a forced landing, just a precautionary landing away from the airfield -- say, due to unexpected adverse weather, running out of fuel, or mechanical failure. I've never come across a fixed wing instructor who has done an off airport (i.e. off runway) landing in a typical scenario (I know some who land on beaches). In my helicopter training I did hundreds of bush landings - it was routine.

When the wind rose, all the training aeroplanes were chained down, and their rudders locked. At the helicopter school, this was the time we practised power off landings to the ground. 25 gusting 35 was stuff of nightmares for light aeroplane pilots (many can fly slower than that, with flaps down), but it's great training weather for helicopter pilots. A great number of fixed wing accidents occur due to lose of control on landing because of wind.

Likewise, when flying fixed wing I'd break out in a sweat if I saw low cloud, or rain, or snow, or other features that might cause me to lose visibility. In mountainous terrain this is a frequent cause of accidents for fixed wing pilots. But in a helicopter training, I often flew below low cloud, in heavy rain, and with less than a mile visibility, or down valleys obscured with cloud -- it's just so easy to stop and turn around in a helicopter, or even land and wait for it to clear.

Helicopter are 10,000 moving parts all trying to do you harm, but when something goes wrong you often have more options to save yourself than when flying fixed wing.

KP

That is my understanding as well. I saw a guy cut his engines in a heli and drop a thousand feet and land. (or it seemed like a thousand feet). Very cool. I do want to learn to fly both, and with my options and all I am acutally considering University of North Dakotas fixed wing flight program. I could get my Bachelors in avation, commercial pilots lisence, and then use my flight hours toward my heli lisence as well. Best part is that I can also get a large part of my training on the governments dime.

[McGurk]

When I did my fixed wing (aeroplane) training, the instructors would look out of the windows and remark how dangerous helicopters where. Then, when I did my helicopter training, I was surprised how many of the helicopter instructors looked out and remarked how dangerous aeroplanes were. Huh?

Then I started to gradually understand their viewpoint.

An engine failure in a light aeroplane requires locating a flat field with no obstacles close to 1500' long in order to land safely. In some parts of the country this is common, but in many it's very rare. A helicopter needs a tennis court.

I read recently that statistically a helicopter pilot is 4 times more likely than a light aeroplane pilot to walk away from an engine failure.

An emergency might not require a forced landing, just a precautionary landing away from the airfield -- say, due to unexpected adverse weather, running out of fuel, or mechanical failure. I've never come across a fixed wing instructor who has done an off airport (i.e. off runway) landing in a typical scenario (I know some who land on beaches). In my helicopter training I did hundreds of bush landings - it was routine.

When the wind rose, all the training aeroplanes were chained down, and their rudders locked. At the helicopter school, this was the time we practised power off landings to the ground. 25 gusting 35 was stuff of nightmares for light aeroplane pilots (many can fly slower than that, with flaps down), but it's great training weather for helicopter pilots. A great number of fixed wing accidents occur due to lose of control on landing because of wind.

Likewise, when flying fixed wing I'd break out in a sweat if I saw low cloud, or rain, or snow, or other features that might cause me to lose visibility. In mountainous terrain this is a frequent cause of accidents for fixed wing pilots. But in a helicopter training, I often flew below low cloud, in heavy rain, and with less than a mile visibility, or down valleys obscured with cloud -- it's just so easy to stop and turn around in a helicopter, or even land and wait for it to clear.

Helicopter are 10,000 moving parts all trying to do you harm, but when something goes wrong you often have more options to save yourself than when flying fixed wing.

KP

Oh, dont get me wrong, I was just throwing around catchy cliches I've heard.
I know know that safety isnt /really/ and issue, flying IS one of the safest hobbies there is. I also know theres more then what you've posted on the subject.

And most importantly of all, I know what Pilots are like and not one of them, know matter how much they think they are, could give an unbiased opinion!

I myself, am not a pilot... I ran out of money before I got my licence. If money had not been an option, I'd have been flying helicopters rather then planes.

[The Wizard of BC]

Most helicopter pilots learn in the Military. We all attended Emery Riddle at one time or another. Usually to get an additional degree for promotion reasons but it is still one of the largest and most respected schools in the US.

Please remember that a civilian Helicopter rating is very expensive. $45,000.00 to $65,000.00 on average. More if you add on Commercial, sling loading, instruments, and heavy lift to your ticket.

I took advantage of the offer to convert my military license to a full commercial, Rotary Wing, Instrument, Instructor ticket. It was free and just needed a day spent in a classroom taking written tests. I have only used it to contract myself back to the military as a Maintenance Test Pilot. You know, the guy stupid enough to take a 22 million dollar helicopter up to 10,000 ft. just after some other guy had removed both engines, re-built them and stuck them back on, just to make sure they would work again.

I loved my time flying, I started during Viet-Nam with CH-53's. Then after the war and a few years off went into the Army to fly everything in the inventory. Basically if it spun on top, I flew it. I ended up as a senior Test Pilot on AH-64 Apache's and fired the 3rd shot of Desert Storm.

Flying Helicopters is the most fun you can have with your pants on. I once scared the s**t out of a Blue Angle Pilot because he just wasn't used to going 200 mph while 6" off the ground.

All that said, I never even tried to fly in the strictly civilian world. It's boring, repetitive bus driver work most of the time. Helicopter pilots are the vertical taxi drivers of the aviation world. You spend a lot of time sitting around waiting for passengers to arrive, spend 30 mins. getting them to some incredibly small clearing in the woods or onto an equally small platform out at sea, then sit around with no facilities, no comforts, waiting for your passengers to finish their work and fly for 30 mins. to get them home. You then turn the bird over to the maintenance crew for about a million hours of inspections.

The only truly exciting and challenging job for a helicopter pilot is rescue work. Great if you can find the job.

In the long run you will be underpaid, under appreciated, and live a life that everyone else thinks is wonderful.

I don't want to disappoint you just to give you a little reality check.

And the whole thing about crashing a helicopter, Forget it. The reason we practice autorotations is because most of us started in the military and the chances of getting shot at are higher than when flying over the woods of Canada. (But not always)
So we practice, over and over, the technics of landing with no power, Hydraulic failures, missing pieces and parts, and just about any failure that has ever happened.
I have over 3500 first pilot hours in Helicopters (and that is a low time pilot) and the only time I have had to use emergency procedures is the three times people with guns decided to introduce lead particles into my finely tuned airframe.

Berserk Bishop, if there is anything else I can help or advise you on please feel free to PM me.

[KiltedPilot]

Take a look at

http://www.coasthelicoptercollege.com
http://www.bchelicopters.com
http://www.chinookhelicopters.com

These are all good schools, with good instructors and reputations. All have mountains and wilderness nearby for training in real world commercial scenarios.

Coast Helicopter College is based at Victoria International Airport (not far from Freedom Kilts!), and the others at Abbotsford International Airport. Both airports have a mix of international commercial traffic and thus provide good training in busy airport operations.

Mostly the US and Canadian training will be very similar. There is one facet in which these Canadian schools differ from many, but by no means all, US schools. In Canada is not common to be trained by lower time instructors, whereas at many US schools this is the norm. Most instructors in Canada are very experienced commercial pilots who train students in the quieter winter/spring period. Thus Canadian schools often run just two main commercial courses per year -- Sep to Dec, and Jan to Apr.

KP

[berserkbishop]

Take a look at

http://www.coasthelicoptercollege.com
http://www.bchelicopters.com
http://www.chinookhelicopters.com

These are all good schools, with good instructors and reputations. All have mountains and wilderness nearby for training in real world commercial scenarios.

Coast Helicopter College is based at Victoria International Airport (not far from Freedom Kilts!), and the others at Abbotsford International Airport. Both airports have a mix of international commercial traffic and thus provide good training in busy airport operations.

Mostly the US and Canadian training will be very similar. There is one facet in which these Canadian schools differ from many, but by no means all, US schools. In Canada is not common to be trained by lower time instructors, whereas at many US schools this is the norm. Most instructors in Canada are very experienced commercial pilots who train students in the quieter winter/spring period. Thus Canadian schools often run just two main commercial courses per year -- Sep to Dec, and Jan to Apr.

KP

Great links. Thanks! I was browsing through there and noticed that several of the schools said that they were eligible for government financial aid. Thats great but how does that work with me being a U.S. resident and all?

BB

[KiltedPilot]

several of the schools said that they were eligible for government financial aid. That's great but how does that work with me being a U.S. resident and all?

Flight training, for commercial purposes, typically qualifies for tax credits. You get that credit, if appropriate, from whatever jurisdiction you end up paying your subsequent taxes to, not where the flight school is.

That training can also qualify for student loans. Again that tends to come from where you currently reside, not where you will do your training.

Finally, in rare cases, the government will contribute towards that training via special schemes. Again, that contribution tends to come from the government where you reside, rather than the jurisdiction of the school. For instance, the oil revenue rich provincial government of Alberta will contribute towards commercial flight training in BC for Alberta residents, but the government of BC does not (beyond normal tax breaks and loans) for its residents.

You might want to check the information pages of US flight schools which might provide hints at the tax breaks, loans, and contribution schemes that exist for US residents.

KP

[creativeaccents]

I started flying when I was quite young and soloed as soon as I was of legal age to do so. By that time I had already flown many of the Piper and Beechcraft planes with my dad (ex Marine Air corps). Even back in the sixties and seventies there were several instances where only his experiences got us out. He always said the primary difference between instrument rated pilots and the others was that they had the knowledge to know when not to fly and the training to get out of tight spots. Even with that, there was one time when we got caught in a severe downdraft on an approach...I woke up upside down and crawled out. He had been at the controls.
Today, the skies in the U.S. are far more congested. Whatever you may do, get the best instructor you can and don't stop your training even after you have your basic certifications. Too, plan to fly at least once a week. Learning how to recover from stalls, spins, and even the basic maneuvers for getting out of other emergency situations is well worth the practice. A near roll once saved us from a mid-air. There is a lot more to flying today than simply taking lessons for 8 to 10 hours and then going solo.