Help with white tie

[Gauranga]

This is what Wikipedia has to say about wearing the Scottish National Dress to a white tie event:

Scottish Highland dress

As a specific example of national dress, Scottish Highland dress may also be worn at white tie events.

The traditional white tie version of Highland dress consists of:

* Black formal kilt jacket - the Prince Charlie coatee, Montrose doublet, Sheriffmuir doublet, Kenmore doublet or regulation doublet is suitable
* Black barathea (or velvet, with a velvet doublet) or white piqué waistcoat; no waistcoat is worn with the Kenmore doublet
* Kilt
* White piqué shirt with white studs and cufflinks
* White piqué bow tie with the coatee or regulation doublet; white lace jabot with the other doublets
* Black Ghillie brogues; black buckle brogues ("Mary Janes") may be worn with the Montrose, Sheriffmuir, or Kenmore doublet
* Tartan or red and white, red and black or blue and white diced kilt hose
* Flashes
* Sporran - formal type with a silver-mounted cantle-top and fur pouch or a full fur and animal mask type

[McClef]

Nobody can doubt your experience M.O.R. But as has been pointed out, ANY national dress option is going to make you look different to those dressed in white tie and tails. It may actually serve to open conversations where you may then demonstrate your wit, charm, and intellect.

However I don't think this is the point of this particular thread - it is to do with graduation - a white tie (as at St Andrews) doesn't come with the full list of other do's and don'ts. Nobody will be wearing a graduation gown with/without mortar board and the hood of their degree at a diplomatic ball.

[Jack Daw]

White tie is just that, white tie, and the rules are the same whether kilted or in tails.

FORMAL WHITE SHIRT WITH WING COLLAR;
WHITE WAISTCOAT;
WHITE TIE;
TARTAN HOSE or DICED HOSE or BLACK HOSE;
DRESS SPORRAN (silver mounted);
BLACK EVENING JACKET (Prince Charlie coatee);
BLACK EVENING SHOES (well polished plain black shoes; NO brogues).

As previously stated, do not wear your bonnet, and do not wear your plaid. When you can afford to up-grade your sporran, do so. Either one of those silver mounted fur things or a long horse hair or goat hair sporran is appropriate for white tie.

While living in Europe I attended (on average) six white tie dinners a year, plus two or three white tie balls. I did this every year for nearly twenty one years, so I probably have more real world experience than anyone else on this forum.

The whole purpose of formal attire is to blend in, not stand out. You are supposed to look like everyone else, but be remembered for your wit, charm, and intellect. If you stand out because of the way you are dressed, you will be mocked, not admired.

Like I said, it's all about conforming. And doing it so well that you are admired for it.

Sounds sound.

[thescot]

White tie is just that, white tie, and the rules are the same whether kilted or in tails.

FORMAL WHITE SHIRT WITH WING COLLAR;
WHITE WAISTCOAT;
WHITE TIE;
TARTAN HOSE or DICED HOSE or BLACK HOSE;
DRESS SPORRAN (silver mounted);
BLACK EVENING JACKET (Prince Charlie coatee);
BLACK EVENING SHOES (well polished plain black shoes; NO brogues).

As previously stated, do not wear your bonnet, and do not wear your plaid. When you can afford to up-grade your sporran, do so. Either one of those silver mounted fur things or a long horse hair or goat hair sporran is appropriate for white tie.

While living in Europe I attended (on average) six white tie dinners a year, plus two or three white tie balls. I did this every year for nearly twenty one years, so I probably have more real world experience than anyone else on this forum.

The whole purpose of formal attire is to blend in, not stand out. You are supposed to look like everyone else, but be remembered for your wit, charm, and intellect. If you stand out because of the way you are dressed, you will be mocked, not admired.

Like I said, it's all about conforming. And doing it so well that you are admired for it.

Read this carefully and follow it to the letter. The worst that can happen is that someone will not care for your kilt.

If you decide on "flashy," you may well be thought--and look--crass. Boorishness is not well tolerated anywhere, and if you're going to a function where white tie is expected, I can almost bet that they won't care for boors.

Always try to ere on the side of caution. And have a good time.

[Coemgen]

For clarification: We performers will be the only ones in white tie. The audience will probably not be dressed all that formally (I've been to one of these recitals in the past - small audience, mostly in business casual).

Also, would a full mask sporran be an acceptable replacement for a silver cantled sporran?

[Chef]

I don't agree that you shouldn't be noticed for your clothing. Maybe it's my vanity, maybe I'm just smooth and good looking. I could always wear the normal, black tie, white shirt, generic tux; or I could add some slight touches and make a couple of choices to really make my black tie outfit my own.

<snip>

So let us take this into account with a kilt. Go ahead, throw away that white shirt if you don't like it. Do you have a color in your tartan that needs to be emphasized? Maybe your tartan has black stripes in it, try a black shirt. Experiment with tie color. It's clothing, go ahead and make a statement. I promise, if you wear a not-white shirt with a kilt to a black tie event, nobody is going to mock you for your shirt. They are going to envy you for the way a kilt looks on a confident man who knows how to dress. By the way, a black shirt under a black waistcoat makes women weak in the knees! I kid you not.
<snip>

Just my two cents, not trying to ruffle feathers, just putting out some options based on personal experience.

Sorry, MacMillan is correct on white tie. He may be the only person here who has attended more events in white tie than I have and I completely agree with him. Frequently I am in the same position as Coemgen, where only performers or members of a dais are in white tie.

There is a huge difference be black tie and white tie. While "creative" black tie has become accepted thanks mostly to celebrities, "creative" white tie has not. Maybe because celebrities don't do white tie. Certainly showing up in highland dress white tie will set you apart, so it is very important to make sure the rest of your outfit meets expectations.

Let's also look at Coemgen's situation. He is not attending a ball; he will be a performer at what would likely be considered a conservative institution. He also had to ask for permission to wear his highland kit. SO this is definitely the time to do it right.

So Coemgen, follow MacMillan's advice and you will shine.

[Chef]

[aside] MacMillan, how do you get BBC4 in VA?[/aside]

[Coemgen]

OK, a few specific questions:

1) Must the waistcoat be white, as MacMillian states, or may it be black, as the Wikipedia article says?

2) Is the fly plaid permitted?

3) I don't foresee being able to afford any argyle, tartan, or diced hose anytime soon. Will black hose work?

Also, in case in makes a difference, the performers will not be seen together by the audience. We will go onto the stage one at a time, perform, take our bows, and then exit the stage. Once the recital is over, the audience leaves, and we meet friends and family outside the auditorium.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

OK, a few specific questions:

1) Must the waistcoat be white, as MacMillian states, or may it be black, as the Wikipedia article says?

2) Is the fly plaid permitted?

3) I don't foresee being able to afford any argyle, tartan, or diced hose anytime soon. Will black hose work?

Also, in case in makes a difference, the performers will not be seen together by the audience. We will go onto the stage one at a time, perform, take our bows, and then exit the stage. Once the recital is over, the audience leaves, and we meet friends and family outside the auditorium.

In rapid succession:

1) Wikipedia is wrong re: white tie (unless you want to look like a servant). The white waistcoat is required with white tie.

2) Normally I'd say no to the fly plaid, but as you will be on stage a bit of theatricality probably would do no harm. It's up to you.

3) Black hose are fine with white tie if you don't have tartan or dyced hose.

And when recital time rolls around-- Break a leg!

[Phil]

I have posted this elsewhere but they say a picture tells a thousand words -



This is full levee dress which is the uber formal version of highland dress. You would only wear feathers in your headgear if you were a clan chief. Also the basket-hilted sword is unlikely nowadays. Note the waistcoat (red) but can also be black according to instructions issued by the Lord Chamberlain. The dress doublet does not have to be buttoned but if not a waistcoat of any colour (or tartan) is worn. Anything else including Montrose, Sherrifmuir etc. doublets and the PC is regarded as evening dress only, not white tie, whether or not a jabot is worn.