Are Clergy and Clark the same tartan?

[Nighthawk]

Nighthawk, do you see a big difference in the patterns? I have a Clergy from Sport Kilt, and it is pretty similar to a tank from Scotland which I have in the same tartan. I didn't think that SK did different shades like Ancient.

The one I have from the Frugal Corner, on the other hand, is very bright in fluorescent light.

If you helps you out any, here are a few pictures of my USAK. It's a semi trad.

[CelticRanger66]

Thanks for reposting that link !!! My wife is a Clark and I have that Tartan.

[jordanjm]

Great Link!

[Galician]

I would just expand on Matt's informative article by pointing out that the word "clark" was used in Middle English for what we now call "cleric" or "clergy." This can still be seen in the category used Church documents referring to Clarks Regular (clergy living in community under vows).

In the Middle Ages, those men who were permanently ordained into the lower Orders (grades/levels) of the clergy (now abolished in the Roman Cathoic Church) were not required to be celibate. So this term came to cover not only those who were ordained, but also covered any one who was literate and able to read and write.

[Scotus]

... ordained into the lower Orders (grades/levels) of the clergy (now abolished in the Roman Cathoic Church)

Not exactly. Communities devoted to the extraordinary form of the Roman rite (FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, etc.) still have these minor orders. One became a cleric (clark) when one was tonsured.

[Tony]

Not exactly. Communities devoted to the extraordinary form of the Roman rite (FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, etc.) still have these minor orders. One became a cleric (clark) when one was tonsured.

Dang, I got it backwards! I started out a Clark, and am rapidly approaching tonsured status through DNA rather than religion.

[Ozman1944]

I started out as Cleric.
The old 'orders' were; Cleric, Porter/Door keeper, Lector/Reader, Exorcist, Acolyte, Subdeacon, Deacon, Priest, Bishop.

Clergy in 'Clergy' Tartan.

[KGCTJ]

I also want a Solid Black Tartan for Clergy or solid colors are something I wondered about as a plaid is sometimes difficult to make and sometimes hard to distinguish, a Solid Color would be easier and I think the Kakhi

Great Article From MAtt's article with exception of this statement:
"Keep in mind that until the Reformation of the sixteenth century, all of Scotland was Catholic" The Orthodox Churchs have been there 1600 years or so.

This is absurd there are and were many other religions at that time and Now.
Here is Matt's previous article that refutes the claim that Scotland was ever all catholic
http://www.albanach.org/shorthist.html

[Panache]

Lets please keep this thread on track as a discussion of the Clergy/Clark tartan. We do have rules regarding religion and while the PM system is available for those that wish to discuss it, the open forum is not.

Cheers

Jamie

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I also want a Solid Black Tartan for Clergy or solid colors are something I wondered about as a plaid is sometimes difficult to make and sometimes hard to distinguish, a Solid Color would be easier and I think the Kakhi

Great Article From MAtt's article with exception of this statement:
"Keep in mind that until the Reformation of the sixteenth century, all of Scotland was Catholic" The Orthodox Churchs have been there 1600 years or so.

This is absurd there are and were many other religions at that time and Now.
Here is Matt's previous article that refutes the claim that Scotland was ever all catholic
http://www.albanach.org/shorthist.html

Heeding Jamie's warning not to go off topic, I did just want to make a few points, which I hope will be allowed.

#1, I realize that the statement quoted from my article above is a very broad, general statement. Bear in mind that it is from a very short article about a specific tartan, and not part of a text on the history of religion in Scotland. The context of this statement is a paragraph dealing with the fact that the Clergy tartan is not restricted to any one Christian denomination. Here is the sentence in context:

Finally, the Clergy tartan does not represent any particular sect or denomination. While it is perhaps most popularly used by ministers of the Church of Scotland (Presbyterians), there is no evidence to suggest that its use was ever limited to one group. Keep in mind that until the Reformation of the sixteenth century, all of Scotland was Catholic. Even after that time, the Highlands of Scotland remained Catholic much longer than the Lowlands. And while Presbyterians are most common among Protestants, you also have the Church of England, the Scottish Episcopal Church, and many other denominations in more recent times. Yet the Clergy tartan was never mentioned in association with one particular sect. It was always simply said to be used by “Highland Clergy.”

#2 The question of whether or not the Eastern Orthodox tradition has ever had a major role in Scotland's ecclesial history is one that I know is debated. I've read some of the material supporting this, and I'm not entirely convinced. But that has really very little to do with the Clergy tartan. It's neither here nor there in terms of this discussion.

#3 The other article linked to, "A Ridiculously Short History of Scotland," was not written by me, but by Mary Elizabeth Eyer, and it intended as an aide to reenactors adopting a Scottish impression. I have the article hosted on my web site per her request. I don't claim responsibility for its content. I just wanted to be clear that it's not "my article." That being said, while she makes some mention of the history of religion in Scotland, I don't recall her mentioning Eastern Orthodoxy at all.

That's all I really need to say on this subject. I'm glad that people find my article on the Clergy tartan helpful. It really is a very interesting tartan. Let's keep the posts here on topic in light of that!