Clan Fraser Septs?

[macwilkin]

Cajun




Remember, us Lovat Frasers don't all recognise Lady Saltoun, bless 'er cotton socks, as clan chief. I had a good discussion about this in the Fraser heartlands outside Inverness just recently. Not all folks run with your take on things, whatever the Lord Lyon might say to the contrary!

Cheers

Bruce

Bruce,

I never claimed to be the be-all, end-all, but in the case of who is and who isn't a clansman, the Chief traditionally makes that decision, which goes back long before Lord Lyon (which btw, I never mentioned in my posts).

But, if you'll read Lady Saltoun's web site, you'll notice that she does address the whole "two chiefs" issue:

http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/twochiefs.html

She also mentions the "boll o' meal" Frasers here as well (ie Frasers by allegiance).

So, Bruce -- would you care to expound on why you do not recognise Lady Saltoun -- I honestly don't have a dog in the hunt, as we only have one Chief in the Cummings.

Regards,

Todd

[Stratherrick]

Cajun

Apologies, I didn't mean to offend.

Re the Fraser chief problem, as Lady Saltoun had only daughters, one could say her line has failed. That would mean a bun fight as to who is the chief, with Lord Lovat a strong contender!

Okay, it ain't as easy as that as the Saltouns say history is on their side as, of the main two Fraser knight brothers fighting at Bannockburn (1314), Alex and Simon, their progenitor, Alex, was the oldest.

So, do you run with antiquity or modern stances, be my guest!

Cheers

Bruce

[cavscout]

Interesting Bruce. I had not heard about this. We currently have no definite idea which side of the name we descend from since we've only documented back to the early 1800's in the US. The only clue regarding our immigration to the US is the proverbial "2 brothers stowed away on a ship". We spell the name Frazier and realizing names were frequently spelled phonetically on documents it's probably a toss up if we will ever make the link.

[gilmore]

The info in Wikipedia is worth every penny that you pay for it.

[Stratherrick]

Gilmore

I know what you mean about Wiki info being debateable, but the excerpt I gave was from an official Lord Lyon report that is referenced, for once.

Cav

It's a shame you can't get back to pre-1800 just now. One day, though, one day...

Cheers

Bruce

[aviewfrom]

I came across this thread and wanted to add this for those Fraser's who haven't seen it yet.

www.clanfraser.com - Official Fraser of Lovat website

and this

http://www.clanfraser.org/two-chiefs.html - in reguards to the "two chiefs" misunderstanding.