Rich collector alert: antique Scottish shotgun

[Woodsheal]

It's a true 11 gauge, I'm guessing, because that was a very common bore size in Great Britain in those days. 11 ga. is .75 calibre, the bore size of the famous "Brown Bess" muskets. Gunsmiths would've been quite used to turning out barrels in that caliber.

This gun, in such great shape, would be very safe to shoot with black-powder loads. (Of course you shouldn't use smokeless powder in even modern reproduction muzzle-loaders!)

[Birddog]

Thanks for that info, David. I own a replica Sharps, and had familiarized myself with black powder cartridge rifles, modern and antique, but didn't know for sure about the shotguns. And that is a beautiful shotgun you have!

A lot of modern shooters shot damascus barrels, with appropriate loads. By that I mean loads that generate less than 5000 pounds of chamber pressure, so no modern stuff. My concern here would be the bore. If it was proofed as a 12 gauge, but measures as a loose 11 gauge, some internal metal may have been removed by honing or polishing. Simply, it may be out of proof and that would mean no safe firing. But, if the wall thickness is adequate, there is no reason to be afraid to shoot appropriate loads.

David

[Jock Scot]

The interesting thing to note on this shotgun is that the particulars state quite clearly that this work of art carries "English Proof marks". Interesting?Too right it is! No British guns had proof marks in 1840(I think), therefore, either someone wanted the gun "proofed" so that it could be legally sold as a "shooter" in the UK,or they wanted to shoot it themselves and wanted the reassurance of "proofing" before they used it.

Ok we have an "old lady" here and as such she should be treated with respect, but if the proof marks are genuine,no reason to suppose they are not, other than it is unusual for a gun of that age to be "proofed" later on in its life, I would think nothing of firing it with modest black powder loads.In fact ,oh yes please!

[Birddog]

While most black powder rifles from the 19th century can still be shot on a routine basis (with BP only!), from what I have heard from gunsmiths is that even with black powder, apparently the damascus barrels just don't "age" as well as regular steel, and become too soft. Think I have that right. I know I have been told when looking at a Damascus barrel that they should never be fired, but they may have been referring to a modern, smokeless load. That is a truly beautiful piece. And yes, AA, a firearm can be graceful. Take a look at some of the Pennsylvania and Kentucky rifles; you almost never see wood so beautiful any more on a firearm. I saw a Penn rifle that was modern custom made with a stock of maple that would have made Stradavarius proud.

[SFCRick]

what a beauty

[Jock Scot]

I have to make a correction I have just checked up on Proof marks and I have just found out that the Birmingham proof House started,by law,proofing and stamping guns in 1813 so our "old lady" MIGHT have marks dating to 1840, it seems not all guns in those days carried an official stamp though-------I would love to get a look at those marks!

[Woodsheal]

Jock, you know you want it! They'll take in other guns on trade as part of the deal, and will negotiate their asking price, too (I've bought and sold with them in the past.

Buy it, mannie...!

[Jock Scot]

Jock, you know you want it! They'll take in other guns on trade as part of the deal, and will negotiate their asking price, too (I've bought and sold with them in the past.

Buy it, mannie...!

Get thee behind me satan! I rather think that I dont need another one! I am always interested though and I must admit those proof marks intrigue me.

[Freedomlover]

Old shotguns can be used safely. I have, and use, the double 12 I learned to hunt with more than 50 years ago. It is a Damascus barreled Belgian piece made in 1881. I load my own shells for it, and keep the charge to 80% of what it would use if new.