Kirkin' of the Tartan

[JS Sanders]

I have no problems with the gentleman using my article as a source, but it is academic courtesy to credit your sources.

Even more so with websites. When search engines are working and find two sites with closely worded content, the search engine 'decides' which is the authentic website. And they get it wrong regularly.

In Google, the loser is shoved to the bottom of the search pile. It can be so deep no one conducting a search will ever find it. And it's almost as difficult as re-establishing your stolen identity to get your original ranking back. Happened two years ago to me, and it was two months before I was back in the same rankings. No way of knowing how much business was lost.

About twice annually, some ding-a-ling tinker piper copies my website as his own. Happened as recently as two weeks ago. Nothing happened and he quickly removed my intellectual property.

I use www.copyscape.com to prevent this from occuring. Copyscape caught this latest incident. They offer a free service and it is convenient to use.

Unfortunately for those who wish to acknowledge my website content as a source, for the same reasons above, I cannot permit it.

Slainte,
steve

[BoldHighlander]

I use www.copyscape.com to prevent this from occuring. Copyscape caught this latest incident. They offer a free service and it is convenient to use.

Wow! Thanks for the link Steve!
I'm going to use this for a couple of my sites!

[BoldHighlander]

None the less, it's a nice ceremony. Even though it is not my religious tradition, I attend with my husband, and find time well spent.

Indeed.
I enjoy attending it too, and especially look forward to doing so next year in my new Newsome Box Pleat!

[CPOBull@Comcast.net]

slainte

It has come to my attention, principally through reading and very informal research that the practice of kirkin' the tartan was likewise a practice among the Highlanders and the Irish Catholic who had intermarried and hid oput in the Highlands, being principally Jacobites, all. [In the Highlands today there are still strong intermarriage histories between Scots and Irish Catholic. one cannot walk in the upper Highlands and not hear the very distinct Irish Gaelic brogue blending with the Scots burr; it is musical] There is an old song Mo Ghile Mear [My gallant Darling] a song about Prince Charles Edward Stewart of whom the irish Catholics were great supporters and who fought at Culloden moor on his behalf. It is still sung today, especially with passion in some "Republican circles" So it has come to me by inference that this practice existed among them too, though to much lesser degree. i have referred to this in an epic poem I penned some years ago. i make no pitch here; I am principally an historian in this.

dia duit
CPO Bull
Anchor's Away/Semper Fi

[gilmore]

slainte

It has come to my attention, principally through reading and very informal research that the practice of kirkin' the tartan was likewise a practice among the Highlanders and the Irish Catholic who had intermarried and hid oput in the Highlands, being principally Jacobites, all. ...

What is your source for this?

As far as anyone has been able to discover heretofore based on reliable information, kirkin of the tartan is an American invention of some 60 odd years ago that has not been done in Scotland.

[Jock Scot]

BULL.The only Irish accents heard in this part of western Scotland are from Irish holiday makers or Irish people who have made their home here and their accents should not be confused with the local Scots one.Not all Jacobites were Catholics either. Whilst I don't claim to be an expert on religous matters, I have never in nearly 70 years of living,one way or another, in the Western Highlands heard of kirkin the tartan until I joined this website about a year ago.Now I am not for one minute suggesting that it does not happen here,but what I am suggesting is that it does not seem to feature very highly on the church scene,very far from it in my experiance!

I know you are obviousely very interested in the historical and cultural aspects of the Jacobite era in the highlands,but there are many Highland Scots who do not see those times in the same light as you do and there are many highland Scots whose ancestors fought for the Jacobite cause, who rue the day that the Stewarts ever walked this earth.Not what you want to hear,perhaps, but nevertheless true.

[macwilkin]

slainte

It has come to my attention, principally through reading and very informal research that the practice of kirkin' the tartan was likewise a practice among the Highlanders and the Irish Catholic who had intermarried and hid oput in the Highlands, being principally Jacobites, all. [In the Highlands today there are still strong intermarriage histories between Scots and Irish Catholic. one cannot walk in the upper Highlands and not hear the very distinct Irish Gaelic brogue blending with the Scots burr; it is musical] There is an old song Mo Ghile Mear [My gallant Darling] a song about Prince Charles Edward Stewart of whom the irish Catholics were great supporters and who fought at Culloden moor on his behalf. It is still sung today, especially with passion in some "Republican circles" So it has come to me by inference that this practice existed among them too, though to much lesser degree. i have referred to this in an epic poem I penned some years ago. i make no pitch here; I am principally an historian in this.

dia duit
CPO Bull
Anchor's Away/Semper Fi

To echo Gilmore's post, if you have reliable sources that document such a claim, a number of us in the Scottish-American community would love to see them.

All of the evidence so far credits the late Dr. Peter Marshall, pastor of the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church and Chaplain of the US Senate with devising the Kirkin' ceremony during the Second World War as a way to raise funds for war relief.

Also, just as a factual point, not all Highlanders were Roman Catholic; many of those who favoured the Jacobite cause were Episcopalians, as the Episcopal Church was being persecuted by the Kirk in the years after the Glorious Revolution of 1688.

Regards,

Todd

[BoldHighlander]

I know you are obviousely very interested in the historical and cultural aspects of the Jacobite era in the highlands,but there are many Highland Scots who do not see those times in the same light as you do and there are many highland Scots whose ancestors fought for the Jacobite cause, who rue the day that the Stewarts ever walked this earth.Not what you want to hear,perhaps, but nevertheless true.

Aye Jock, the Mackays (for instance) were no real fans of the Stewarts, being a Protestant clan & feeling the heavy hand when the Stewarts were in charge, they went out for the House of Hanover instead.

During the '45 there were 18 Independent Companies, allocated as follows:
Macleods (Skye & Harris) - 4
Mackenzies (Earl of Seaforth) - 3
Macdonalds (Sleat) - 2
Sutherlands - 2
Mackays (Lord Reay) - 2
Grants - 1
Macleods (Assynt) - 1
Munros - 1
Rosses - 1
Town of Inverness - 1
(and lest we forget the Argyll militia & Loudon's (64th) Highlanders as well).

There were a number of clans with divided loyalties as well (Gordons & Mackintoshes amongst them).
I've once read that 1/3 of the population were Jacobite, 1/3 were supporters of the Hanoverians, and 1/3 just wanted to be left alone (this mirrors what was written about the division of the population during our own American War of Independence by the way).

And that is as political as I dare go
I now return you to the subject at hand...

[Prester John]

... in nearly 70 years of living,one way or another, in the Western Highlands ...

Ah, now that sounds nice!

I've often thought about looking into a move to Scotia...maybe someday.

[ThistleDown]

slainte

It has come to my attention, principally through reading and very informal research that the practice of kirkin' the tartan was likewise a practice among the Highlanders and the Irish Catholic who had intermarried and hid oput in the Highlands, being principally Jacobites, all. [In the Highlands today there are still strong intermarriage histories between Scots and Irish Catholic. one cannot walk in the upper Highlands and not hear the very distinct Irish Gaelic brogue blending with the Scots burr; it is musical] There is an old song Mo Ghile Mear [My gallant Darling] a song about Prince Charles Edward Stewart of whom the irish Catholics were great supporters and who fought at Culloden moor on his behalf. It is still sung today, especially with passion in some "Republican circles" So it has come to me by inference that this practice existed among them too, though to much lesser degree. i have referred to this in an epic poem I penned some years ago. i make no pitch here; I am principally an historian in this.

dia duit
CPO Bull
Anchor's Away/Semper Fi

Wherever did you get that (mis)information? I've been living in both the Scottish Highlands and in Western Canada for almost 70 years and have never heard of a "kirkin' of the tartan" in either place. For five of those years I lived in Kilkenny and there tartan for sure was not worn or carried to the church at any time!

The whole Jacobite thing is a non-issue in Scotland today. As is the religious stuff that some want to stick in the middle of it. There were Jacobites who were Protestant in the 17th and early 18th Centuries, and there were Hanoverians who were Catholic.

There was a bit of confusion between religion and politics then, it is true, but there is no such now -- in Scotland.