-
2nd December 08, 12:07 PM
#11
Modern "ghillie" or "jacobite" shirts are to my perhaps undiscriminating eye very similar to the shirts worn by Colonial Williamsburg employees when representing 18th century colonial American laborers or artisans, some of whom surely were Scottish immigrants. I therefore consider them appropriate for wear with kilts in informal situations. I also believe that there is too little specific historical information about the details of the construction of the leine to rule out the possibility that the ghillie shirt is a descendant of the leine.
So I conclude that whether to wear such a shirt with a kilt is entirely a matter of taste.
.
"No man is genuinely happy, married, who has to drink worse whiskey than he used to drink when he was single." ---- H. L. Mencken
-
-
2nd December 08, 01:01 PM
#12
What we are calling the Jacobite shirt is just another variation of a shirt style that has been worn for hundreds of years in western culture. Details vary, like collar, buttons, etc. but the basic design is the same. Some people of that time would have probably worn a similar shirt, but to claim that it is the "historically accurate" Jacobite attire is oversimplifying.
We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance. - Japanese Proverb
-
-
2nd December 08, 08:59 PM
#13
If you want to get really picky, you must make it out of unbleached linen or cotton, hand spun and woven on a hand loom, and sewn entirely by hand, (no sewing machines allowed).
The gillie style shirt has been around a l-o-o-o-ng time, only the details have changed a bit. For warm weather wear when one wants to look more dressed up than in a T shirt, it looks quite good, in my eyes.
The pipes are calling, resistance is futile. - MacTalla Mor
-
-
2nd December 08, 11:14 PM
#14
The shirt sold by Townsend is a good example, although I believe the collars were generally smaller, closer to a band type collar for the common man. A lot of reenactors make our own. It's a fairly simple procedure, the pattern is all rectangles.
This style shirt, made of all rectangles is the basic men's shirt pattern from the 1600's to the mid 1800's. The only major changes being the width of the collar and cuff. 1740-50's narrow band by the 1770's the collar is wider,big enough to fold down over the neck stock. Most have a single button at the neck or a single tie string.
My main complaint with the modern Jacobite shirt is the lace up front of which I can find no historical example.
I'm an 18th century guy born into the 20th century and have been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
We do not stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing"
-
-
3rd December 08, 05:23 AM
#15
Ok, I'm going to chime in here. There has been a lot of criticism of the so-called "kilt shirt" (which is variously called a Jacobite shirt, a Ghillie shirt, a Culloden shirt, a Highlander shirt, etc., but they all mean the same basic thing). One of the main criticisms is that it is not historically accurate.
This is true. Some have suggested that it has certain similarities to older styles of shirt, but this does not necessarily prove continuity. A modern "kilt-shirt" and a sixteenth century leinie, for example, are related in the fact that they are both types of shirts, but other than that, there is not much in common. A modern "kilt-shirt" has more in common with an eighteenth century shirt, but still, there are important stylisitc differences, mainly in the collar and cuff construction. These differences are important, if one is evaluating the shirt from the standpoint of historical accuracy.
In other words, if one is attempting to put together an eighteenth century Jacobite era impression, one of these shirts simply won't do.
On the other hand, the modern "kilt-shirt" can be said to be an "historically inspired" shirt. The attempt is obviously to create a somewhat historical look with the design. But my big question here is this -- why the need to wear an historical themed shirt with modern Highland attire? If you are wearing a modern kilt, why not simply wear a modern shirt? The kilt is clothing, after all, not a fancy costume. Who do we really want to look to for inspiration in our Highland dress -- examples such as the Duke of Argyle, Cameron of Lochiel, or Lord Lovat from the recent photo threads; or Errol Flynn and 1950s era westerns?
Since the "kilt shirt" is not really acceptable for accurate historical clothing, and it's rather out of place as part of a modern Highland wardrobe, as well, it seems suitable really only as part of a Ren-Faire like costume where the goal is to look vaguely historical in a romantic and not-necessarily-accurate kind of way.
Having said this, I must admit that the "kilt shirt" is a staple at many Highland Games and I have seen some very well put together "Neo-Jacobite" (a term I used in this article) outfits. It can look quite dashing. But I still maintain that such outfits would look out of place in any venue other than a Highland Games or similar festival.
-
-
3rd December 08, 12:37 PM
#16
-
-
3rd December 08, 03:25 PM
#17
I've had some shirts made using an 18-C pattern. The shirts are: made of linen or silk; long tailed down to mid-thigh; and, have no string or thong tie at the front. The button at the cuff is made of bone. The long shirt was underclothing and served as such for both bottom and top. If you wear such a shirt you should also wear a waistcoat, otherwise you're running around in an undershirt.
-
-
3rd December 08, 03:57 PM
#18
 Originally Posted by Jack Daw
I've had some shirts made using an 18-C pattern. The shirts are: made of linen or silk; long tailed down to mid-thigh; and, have no string or thong tie at the front. The button at the cuff is made of bone. The long shirt was underclothing and served as such for both bottom and top. If you wear such a shirt you should also wear a waistcoat, otherwise you're running around in an undershirt.
Exactly! While the cut of the 'ghillie' shirts is not bad, the criss-cross front lacing is strictly Hollywood. If you want a great 18th c. shirt, with the proper knee-length, go here:
http://www.trailhd.com/shirts.html
Brian
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin
-
-
4th December 08, 10:06 AM
#19
I have a shirt of this general pattern which was hand-made of coarse linen, but I did not like the laced neck closure. I just connected some bone toggle-style buttons with a bit of thread so that I could button the lacing-holes together, and I've gotten numerous favorable comments at highland games…
I do really like the extra length under the kilt.
-
-
4th December 08, 10:35 AM
#20
I find personally that the most common type of shirt for me with a kilt is a tee shirt with a button down shirt over it. Of course I may not be th ebest fashion example since it is 24 degrees here in oklahoma right now and I wore flip flops to work today. so take it with a grain of salt.
Jeremy
-
Similar Threads
-
By Riverkilt in forum Show us your pics
Replies: 7
Last Post: 29th July 07, 04:36 PM
-
By MACKAY in forum General Kilt Talk
Replies: 32
Last Post: 21st February 06, 09:48 AM
-
By bear in forum General Kilt Talk
Replies: 4
Last Post: 6th November 05, 07:32 PM
-
By James in forum General Kilt Talk
Replies: 17
Last Post: 21st February 05, 02:50 PM
Tags for this Thread
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules
|
|
Bookmarks