New sgian from DWFII

[Howard Clark]

Well, no, not exactly. "True" damascus is wootz, which is not folded or welded, but something else entirely. "Damascus" as in common usage, is folded and welded steel, more properly referred to as "pattern welded". I have made a couple tons of the stuff (literally).

Japanese swords are made from somewhat similar methods, but the point of it was to make a high quality steel, and not for the sake of the pattern development, in and of it's self. Similar, but different.

But the popular culture calls it damascus, if it shows any surface pattern, so feel free to call it whatever you want, and you will have loads of company, in any case.

Having made a living making knives and blades, and pattern welded steel, for twenty years, I do know a thing or two about it. I don't want to sound pedantic though. And it doesn't really matter anyway.

It is a beautiful knife, good work !

What's the sheath lined with, if you don't mind the question ?

[DWFII]

Having made a living making knives and blades, and pattern welded steel, for twenty years, I do know a thing or two about it. I don't want to sound pedantic though. And it doesn't really matter anyway.

Whereas, as I mentioned, I don't really know much about it at all--you're a "go to" source as far as I'm concerned.

The source for my pitiful store of knowledge was a documentary I saw a number of years ago that claimed that "damascus'" steel got its name from a process that was in use in Syria (hence the "Damascus") centuries ago. It was a folding technique in which the hot iron was bent on an anvil and hammer-folded into itself...welding the layers together. The Japanese technique was similar although more intensive.

But that's all second-hand knowledge and, as such, is always suspect...

If you can explain briefly and for someone who is not savvy in the smithing trade, how is the "other" damascus produced? And what is the difference...visually, mechanically and functionally?

It is a beautiful knife, good work !

What's the sheath lined with, if you don't mind the question ?

Thank you!

I line the sheath with zinc--there's really a sheath within the sheath--shaped such that the sharpened edge doesn't touch the zinc (unless you try). The thought being that the zinc won't damage the edge but it will protect the leather...and/or your leg...from being cut through.

[Howard Clark]

I had not thought of zinc. That has a couple of good things going for it, I think. Where does one acquire zinc sheet ?

"Genuine Damascus", Wootz, or Bulat, (and it has a few other names as well) was first encountered by Europeans in the desert during the early Crusades in the form of Saracen swords that were well used by the horsemen wielding them. Or at least that is the best of my knowledge. It is an "ultra-high carbon steel" generally 1.5 to 1.8% carbon by weight, though there are examples outside that range with nice pattern, but such examples are few.

It is made using a crucible and fire, and is fully melted to liquid in the making. This differs from most other "primitive" iron and steel making which was not fully liquid, but processed in mostly solid forms and forge welded to make a large mass. At any rate the "cake" of steel is removed from the crucible after the fire has cooled, and the blades are forged from that. The pattern apparent on the surface is from the microstucture of the material, i.e. and banding of large numbers of carbide particles. A great deal of research has been devoted to it. Much of it done by my friends Pendray and Verhoeven. It is difficult material to "get just right", and the science of that is still somewhat foggy in some ways. There are several people around the world making material which is right for chemistry, but very few get the look of it just like the best blades of antiquity. I should note that historic examples also run the gamut from somewhat blah bordering on ugly to truly breathtakingly beautiful. The archaeological evidence strongly suggests that it was made in the middle east, but also in India in rather substantial quantity.

The technology for exactly how to do it was in fact lost for a couple of hundred years, but no more, thanks to Pendray and Verhoeven.

Pattern welded steel, but contrast, is made by stacking plates or strips of alternating types of steel or iron into a sandwich, then forge welding it together to make a solid block. That block is then stretched and folded back on it's self and welded again. And the process repeated as many times as the smith wants to get the look he is after. This technology/method was never really "lost" though it was a long time out of favor. Merovingian swords are amongst the finest of the ancient world. Some Viking stuff is truly inspiring as well. During the 18th and 19th century, gun barrels were more common than blades in being made this way. There were German smiths (most notably Max Dinger) making pattern welded swords for the Imperial Army of Kaiser Wilhelm, and a couple that worked for the Third Reich in the 30's and 40's. This is the line to which most of us modern western smiths belong, in terms of the techniques, at least.

Japanese tradition starts with a large bloom of spongy iron, which is then broken into smaller pieces, flattened with heat and hammer, and stacked on a plate. The stack is then forge welded into a block, and folded back on it's self and stretched as with the patter welded steel. The major difference is that the pattern it's self is not the major goal with the traditional Japanese approach, but merely a by product of the process. This tradition continues more or less unbroken for the last 900 years.

This is greatly over simplified and general, but covers the basic differences. They can all look nearly identical to the untrained eye at times.

[DWFII]

Thanks for that explanation. A follow-up if I may...of the three (?) methods, which produces the best steel for things like swords and knives?

As for zinc, I buy it in sheets at:

Van Dyke Restorers
421 E. Norway
Mitchell, SD 57301
1-800-237-8833

The sheet I got was .021" thick. I wouldn't want it any thinner, I don't think. I bend it and shape it around a blade-shaped template--each sheath is two halves--and fuss with it from there.

[Howard Clark]

It is not so simple as which is best ? There are so many variables within each that they all over-lap in terms of quality possible. It boils down to the skill of the smith with the chosen method.

I am most fond of and most familiar with the western European methodology of starting with plates and manipulating from there, using all modern high carbon steels for blades of any kind.

Thanks for the zinc source, I will have to try that. Are you soldering the liner halves together, and if so, with what ?

[DWFII]

Thanks for the zinc source, I will have to try that. Are you soldering the liner halves together, and if so, with what ?

Not really...I wouldn't know how. But if I did, I probably would.

I tape them together (I know that sounds crazy but it gets a little better), then I wet-forme the leather around the zinc. Once the leather is dry I trim and sew and trim again. Then I gently slide the zinc sheath out of the leather sheath and remove as much tape as I can and still hold the edges butted cleanly together (this is where the "fussing" comes in), scratch up the surface, and then epoxy the zinc back into the sheath. Or sometimes, I'll epoxy the zinc in the formed sheath before I sew it up.

Either way the zinc seems stable, so far, (I wear one of my own) and does appear to be inclined to shift out of position. I think I'd attribute that to the "fussing" and the efforts I make to "fit" the edges.

It's often a question of my mood at the moment and how much fiddling around with clean-up I want to do. Epoxying after sewing is messier; sewing after epoxying can be problematic if you get epoxy in the seam line.

Oh, BTW I wrap the blade in one layer of plastic wrap and the handle in several layers. This forms a moisture barrier from the wet leather. I don't epoxy with the knife in the sheath.

[IrishGary]

My compliments on the finished result. Very, very nice!