Waistcoat and belt

**svc40bt** · 19th January 09, 07:53 PM

I seem to recall a couple of pictures posted on the forum of gentlemen wearing a belt over a waistcoat. I like the look of the belt with the kilt, but I like the waistcoats too.

As for the braces, I have several pair, just can't figure out how to work the buttons with the overlapping aprons. I would think whichever apron I attached them to would be pulled up. It would seem they need to be attached to both aprons but that seems difficult to acheive.

**svc40bt** · 19th January 09, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Carolina Kiltman

I would still go with the braces (suspenders). There is a type that fastens on the side only.

I agree that the clips could damage the kilt, so I would suggest sewing a tab on the inside (catching the hair canvas interlining) and clip the braces to them.

I have used them for years with work clothing, and find them much more comfortable than the usual "fore and aft" type.

http://www.duluthtrading.com/home/ho...G014013&admkt=

Those sideclips are interesting. I will look into them.

**svc40bt** · 19th January 09, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by piperdbh

Thanks for the new opportunity for controversy!
I wonder if some sort of strap-and-button arrangement could be installed to the bottom of the waistcoat which would fasten to a corresponding holder attached to the kilt? For instance, buttons could be sewn to the inside of the top of the kilt, near the first and last pleats so as to not pull on the aprons, and straps with buttonholes could be sewn to the inside bottom of the waistcoat/vest, and the wearer could then attach the two, thereby holding the waistcoat down and the kilt up at the same time. These appliances would not be seen, and if done right, I believe it might solve a lot of people's problems. This system could also be used for pants/trousers/britches, as well, attaching to the buttons that some pants already have for suspenders/braces.
If anybody patents this system, I want half the royalties.

Make it a 'load bearing vest'.

Now that I think of it, someone mentioned that the waistcoats for white tie had some similar system to ensure the waistband of the trousers was not exposed.

**DWFII** · 19th January 09, 09:18 PM

Most men's braces...the one's that aren't clip-ons...have a double button-hole arrangement in both sides of the front. Hard to describe but people familiar with good men's braces probably know what I mean.

So...why not sew a button on the inner side of the inner apron and another button (for the same strap) on the inner side of the outer apron. Do the same for the other side of the front of the kilt. In the back you would sew both buttons on the inner side of the kilt. What I'm getting at is...wouldn't that keep the aprons even?

I am going to sew buttons on my kilt to wear with a waistcoat simply because I have the same problem--no hips/butt to speak of. I've seen too many old (vintage) photographs of kilts with braces to think it odd. And if buttons are used and sewn inside the kilt, the kilt can still be worn with a belt and no one will be the wiser.

**Bugbear** · 19th January 09, 09:23 PM

Interesting... I have the same measurements, give or take a half inch, from waist down, but I don't have that problem at all. No hips nor butt either... Must just be a different shape.

I do have a problem with the low waist trousers though. If they have a high enough waist they work fine without braces. I used to wear braces with my suits until I figured that out.

**Zardoz** · 19th January 09, 09:25 PM

Since 'traditionally' the waistcoat would cover the same area of the kilt that a belt would, just wear a belt under it. Something smaller, plain and unobtrusive, not a big ol' kilt belt. A cloth military style trouser web belt comes to mind.

**Jack Daw** · 19th January 09, 09:29 PM

Well, since you can't wear a belt and waistcoat at the same time and suspenders are out, too, your only choice is to go bottomless.

**svc40bt** · 19th January 09, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by DWFII

Most men's braces...the one's that aren't clip-ons...have a double button-hole arrangement in both sides of the front. Hard to describe but people familiar with good men's braces probably know what I mean.

So...why not sew a button on the inner side of the inner apron and another button (for the same strap) on the inner side of the outer apron. Do the same for the other side of the front of the kilt. In the back you would sew both buttons on the inner side of the kilt. What I'm getting at is...wouldn't that keep the aprons even?

I am going to sew buttons on my kilt to wear with a waistcoat simply because I have the same problem--no hips/butt to speak of. I've seen too many old (vintage) photographs of kilts with braces to think it odd. And if buttons are used and sewn inside the kilt, the kilt can still be worn with a belt and no one will be the wiser.

Indeed they do. Now why didn't I think of that.

**ForresterModern** · 20th January 09, 03:51 AM

I have the same body shape problem with nearly matching waist and hip measurements and the kilts that tend to go from being traditional design to casual wear in fit after about a half an hourm requiring regular trips to the mens room for readjustment. I do have several pair of clamp on braces that work well, except it is hard to get both layers of the apron (especially a 16oz tank) into the clamps in front---the rear is not a problem. They are easy to hide under a waistcoat or sweater (jumper to you brits). I too am worried about long term potential damage to the tartan however.

My thought with what to do with the button style braces is to install one button on each side, left and right, to the inside of the outer apron and the second button to the inside of the inner apron on each side, allowing for some play laterally. That should help keep both aprons from slipping below each other. If I ever get the courage to try out my configuration some time I will let all know the outcome, as I have yet to want to take needle and thread and buttons to one of my nice kilts, being that I am not great with needle and thread and fear equal if not greater damage from my attempt. This is the one time in my life I wished I had a cheap quality kilt to experiment on before committing to altering one of my good ones.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 20th January 09, 05:44 AM

About the kilt not fitting well -- are you fastening the straps as tightly as you can? You should be able to strap that kilt on as tightly as you can strap on a belt, so I would think it would stay in place fine without one, unless it is too loose.

Anyway, I would echo others advice to wear braces under the waistcoat and that will solve the problem. If you do want to wear a belt with the waistcoat, make sure it is designed to wear with a belt.

One reason why people advise not to wear a belt with a waistcoat is that you typically see only the bottom half of the belt peeking out from under the waistcoat, and it tends to look goofy. Exhibit A:

Or, if the waistcoat is long enough, it covers the whole belt and you don't see it at all anyway (and since most people wear the belt for looks, not to keep the kilt on...)

Here is a model with no belt, and you can see it presents a much cleaner look.

On the other hand, this tartan waistcoat that Sir Malcolm MacGregor is wearing in the below photo was designed to have a belt worn over it.

(This is not the most clear image, I realize. If anyone has other examples of a belt worn properly over a waistcoat, please post them here).

All examples of waistcoats with belts worn over them that I have seen have been for formal wear, so if you are looking for something that will work with more casual attire, I would again suggest the suspenders/braces.