Kilted Dancers on the Ed Sullivan show

**macwilkin** · 27th September 09, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by peacekeeper83

Remember the Saffron was first worn as a military kilt back in 1859 ish, so it had to be older than that, to represent the Irish. and the solid colored kilts can be seen in photos dated late 19th and early 20th centuries..Its the recent appearance of the Irish tartans that is the new addition to the kilting world. (with some exceptions of course)

What is the source, please, for an 1859 date on Saffron kilts being worn as a military kilt? All of my research on the subject points to the Irish Regiments of the British Army adopting the saffron kilt right around the time of the First World War, as well as its adoption by some Irish nationalists, most notably Patrick Pearse.

Regards,

Todd

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 27th September 09, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Rawlinson

I looked the song up on Wikipedia (reliable source that it is) and found the lyrics. Why don't they sing the last part?

Irish revisionist history may be part of the answer.

**dfmacliam** · 27th September 09, 01:29 PM

The Royal Tyrone Fusiliers Militia adopted pipers, and the Irish version of the military kilt.
The London Irish Rifles had pipe and drums from 1906 and the Tyneside Irish Battalians of the Northumberton Fusiliers had warpipes from their formation in 1915. All of these pipers wore the Saffron kilt.

This information is available on the Royal Irish Rangers website royalirishrangers.co.uk/uniform.html

I would feel an official website of the unit would constitute factual information.

**macwilkin** · 27th September 09, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by peacekeeper83

The Royal Tyrone Fusiliers Militia adopted pipers, and the Irish version of the military kilt.
The London Irish Rifles had pipe and drums from 1906 and the Tyneside Irish Battalians of the Northumberton Fusiliers had warpipes from their formation in 1915. All of these pipers wore the Saffron kilt.

This information is available on the Royal Irish Rangers website royalirishrangers.co.uk/uniform.html

I would feel an official website of the unit would constitute factual information.

I found the article on regimental uniforms on the web site you mentioned, yet the article really didn't say that the saffron kilt was adopted in 1859, only that the Royal Tyrone Fusiliers Militia introduced pipers that year.

RG Harris' history of the Irish Regiments mentions 1910 as the first date of regimental pipers of the Royal Iniskilling Fusiliers, specifically stating that said pipers "wore no tartan, either in the form of kilt or trews." (134). David Murphy also supports the theory on the ore WWI date for the adoption of the saffron kilt by the Irish regiments in his "Irish Reginents in the World Wars".

As you mentioned, many regiments unofficially paid for pipers, and some were clad in saffron kilts and other forms of Irish "dress".

Regards,

T.

Just as an aside, the Royal Irish Rangers were amalgamated in the 1990s into the Royal Irish Regiment. I wish the author had posted their sources in footnotes. I believe this is the official web site of the RIR association web site, but it is not a British MoD site.

**Rawlinson** · 27th September 09, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

Irish revisionist history may be part of the answer.

I was thinking that might be the case, but it seems a shame to cut out the call to arms.

**Kiltman** · 27th September 09, 03:10 PM

As Ed said at the end 'wonderful'. For me that was much more interesting Irish dancing than the show dances that we currently see so much of. Perhaps because I'm a Scottish Country Dancer I like the closer to SCD choreography.

**funlvnman** · 27th September 09, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Rawlinson

I was thinking that might be the case, but it seems a shame to cut out the call to arms.

I suspect it had more to do with the length of the song than anything else. TV shows are notorious for maintaining the "proper" running time for segments.

Follow the links at the end of the video and one of them has the song in it's entirety.

**Rawlinson** · 27th September 09, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by funlvnman

Follow the links at the end of the video and one of them has the song in it's entirety.

the song in its entirety

I don't think that one's by the Clancy Brothers.

**funlvnman** · 27th September 09, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Rawlinson

the song in its entirety

I don't think that one's by the Clancy Brothers.

Agreed. I don't know which video I found of the Clancy's contained the entire song. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark it. I know it exists tho. Keep looking.