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5th October 09, 12:33 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Galician
This might actually tie in with another thread here. The "trews" being worn by the young gallant in that painting seem to be more what we call "tights" than trousers. Though he is clearly wearing flashes, the garment seems to be of one piece with his hose.
If this were the case, might not the sporran be the Scottish equivalent of the codpiece? That would account for the specifically Scottish style of wearing it.
No, the sporran was a purse, due to the absence of pockets. No need to read anything else into it.
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5th October 09, 03:41 PM
#12
Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR
No, the sporran was a purse, due to the absence of pockets. No need to read anything else into it.
Sure, rather some simple fuctional leather pouch a guy straps a big hairy bag on his groin, sometimes topped with a fierce animal head. Why would anyone read anything into that?
Best regards,
Jake
[B]Less talk, more monkey![/B]
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24th October 09, 09:50 AM
#13
Thanks CajunScot,
That picture and the motion of the tassels on the sporran give rise to memories of a lady I once saw dance. Clockwise AND counter-clockwise.
Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife
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9th November 09, 12:33 PM
#14
Anybody remember all the hype about the fanny pack when it came out in the late '70's, early '80's? The new way to carry/keep the items you needed at hand. They neglected to mention the "new way" was backed up by some 800 to 900 years of R&D.
[I][B]Nearly all men can stand adversity. If you really want to test a man’s character,
Give him power.[/B][/I] - [I]Abraham Lincoln[/I]
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12th November 09, 08:17 PM
#15
Originally Posted by kennethrmc
Thanks to all of you--for asking and providing fascinating answers. I've learned a lot in a hurry from this thread. Not that I'm about to start wearing a sporran with my jeans...
I actually have worn a sporran with my jeans. It was pretty handy to put all the stuff in there instead of the pockets. I learned to like it, but i didn't want to wear out the only sporran I had so I quite doing it. That's really the only reason I stopped.
Jim Killman
Writer, Philosopher, Teacher of English and Math, Soldier of Fortune, Bon Vivant, Heart Transplant Recipient, Knight of St. Andrew (among other knighthoods)
Freedom is not free, but the US Marine Corps will pay most of your share.
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13th November 09, 12:00 AM
#16
Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR
No, the sporran was a purse, due to the absence of pockets. No need to read anything else into it.
Then again the codpiece, too, often functioned as a purse - safer from those thieves known as cut-purses ...
Garrett
"Then help me for to kilt my clais..." Schir David Lindsay, Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaitis
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13th November 09, 06:10 AM
#17
the leather bag used as a purse pre sporran days was and still is called a "poke" here in the highlands.
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13th November 09, 09:06 AM
#18
Originally Posted by NewGuise
Then again the codpiece, too, often functioned as a purse - safer from those thieves known as cut-purses ...
while i can see that both are used to hold valuables do you have a cite for the use as purses?
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13th November 09, 10:02 PM
#19
Originally Posted by nagod
while i can see that both are used to hold valuables do you have a cite for the use as purses?
Not an easy/brief one, I fear. That tidbit was the result of a few years of research, which began because I was dealing with early English plays in which there were some odd erotic (and homoerotic) relationships/dialogue involving putting money in purses; I only started to figure out what was going on when I tried staging such plays. But believe me, there are numerous (if often slightly oblique) literary/dramatic references to coins, jewelry (insert "family jewels" joke here), and even pistols (!) being kept in codpieces. The word cod means testicle or scrotum, but by 1000 CE could be used to mean bag, and by the C18 became a slang term for purse.
[I should add that I've presented scholarly papers that deal with this topic at the annual medieval conference in, yes, Kalamazoo, Michigan!]
Garrett
"Then help me for to kilt my clais..." Schir David Lindsay, Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaitis
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14th November 09, 06:51 AM
#20
I thought this thread would be about the "history of the plain leather day sporran" but so far no one has dicussed that topic.
Everyone's talking about 18th century sporrans and pokes as so forth.
But the topic mentioned in the title of the thread is very interesting: Where did the plain leather day sporran come from?
As we know the mid-18th-century sporran, leather with a number of braided leather tassels, with opening metal purselike top, gradually evolved into the long hair sporran.
The Highlanders of Scotland, extremely detailed portraits of men in Highland dress painted in the 1860's, shows that at that time long hair sporrans were universally worn, with tweed jackets, black jackets, and military doublets. Tartan hose could be worn with tweed jackets; buckled shoes could be worn with plain hose; and so it went. Not a single man is wearing a sporran resembling a "plain leather day sporran".
For whatever reason, in the mid 20th century Highland dress evolved neatly seperated modes of dress, and names appeared for these modes. Each mode had its own jacket, sporran, hose, and footwear:
Day dress: tweed jacket, plain leather sporran resembling a pocket with flap, self-coloured hose, ghillie ties.
Evening dress: black formal jacket, sealskin sporran with metal cantle, tartan hose, Mary Janes.
Military Full Dress: doublet with standup collar, long hair sporran, diced hosetops, spats, feather bonnet.
So, the "plain leather day sporran" per se didn't exist until the concept of "day dress" itself came about, if we want to be literal.
What I wonder is, what is the first pictorial evidence of the "plain leather day sporran" as it was known in the 1950's up through recently?
To be quite clear, this is a leather pocket with flap, often bearing three braided leather tassels. It is NOT an 18th century sporran. It is NOT a poke.
Here is one, in this case tooled and lacking the tassels:
I have a large collection of photos of Victorian and Edwardian people in Highland dress and none are wearing such a thing. I suspect it was invented in the 20th century.
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