Saffron kilt showdown

[beloitpiper]

[off topic]
Greg, it's funny, but though the colors in this photo are a little yellowed and washed out, it reminds me exactly of the scene in so many midwestern towns that I've passed through, you know the ones with the slightly faded-around-the-edges look.
[/off topic]

Regards,
Rex.

1) I didn't take the photo (obviously), it was done by a freelancer who sent me the photo later. I personally don't care for the photo but it's alright.

2) I know exactly what you mean.

[macwilkin]

As a proud native Midwesterner, I'm not sure if I should laugh or be offended...

(grin)

[O'Callaghan]

I have one too. I bought it here from NorCalPiper, who bought it from SWK, but it didn't fit him.

Saffron kilts are worn by all the pipers in all the UK Irish regiments and in both the Irish Army and the Irish Air Corps, as well as in Irish regiments in several commonwealth countries.

Apparenty, according to the UK Ministry of Defence the saffron kilt represents ancient Irish dress. By represents I don't think they mean it is identical, just similar. The ancient Irish wore the leine (a linen tunic), which was often dyed with saffron, and there are old drawings and carvings that show a pleated version of the leine, so the saffron kilt represents the lower half of the pleated saffron leine, albeit saffron dye doesn't produce the same colour in a woolen kilt as it does in a linen leine.

Saffron kilts were apparently first worn by the pipers of the Enniskillen Fusiliers, a distinguished regiment raised in Enniskillen, Ireland, which was part of the UK at the time, but is now part of the Republic of Ireland. One person here gave the date as 1859, so that's 150 years ago, and I have seen a photo elsewhere dated 1870 of the Enniskillen Fusiliers wearing the saffron kilt, so the slightly earlier date doesn't seem a stretch atall.

The saffron kilt also fits in with the move to adopt solid colour kilts as Irish national dress in the 1800s, although all the evidence I've seen is that only two colours were actually worn, saffron and green, the latter for more obvious reasons and never by the British Army (LOL!), and if anyone can push the date back further than 150 years I'd be very interested to hear it.

[Galician]

Years ago I read that Julius Caesar described the Celts in what is now France as known for wearing what he described as saffron. So I see it as more of a pan-Celtic color.

Thanks for the video link, Paul. They look very smart. From the basketball hoop by the stage, I assume that they were performing in some Catholic school auditiorium in the U.S.

I was surprised by their "plaids," though. They look more like sashes than the usual cape style I see worn by pipe bands here.

Edit: I just saw that it was filmed at the St. Patrick Day post-parade party in Bayonne, N.J.

[macwilkin]

One person here gave the date as 1859, so that's 150 years ago, and I have seen a photo elsewhere dated 1870 of the Enniskillen Fusiliers wearing the saffron kilt, so the slightly earlier date doesn't seem a stretch atall.

Just a caveat to this statement: we haven't seen any definitive proof via primary sources of either date. Both Harris and Murphy's histories of the Irish Regiments seem to point to the adoption of the saffron kilt by pipers in Irish Regiments right around the turn of the century in the early 1900s. They have the sources, so until I see something from a documented source, this pednatic pedagogue remains skeptical of these dates. If anyone has an actual source (documentation preferred), I would love to see it -- I've been looking for sources on this tradition for years!

T.

[thescot]

I think that the saffron kilt looks as good or better tha almost any other klt. And I like it for its Irish attachments. I may see about getting one before nest St. Patrick's Day since that is a big deal for me here, and I think the color would speak volumes that no one else in town would ever read.

[slohairt]

The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers were formed in 1881 and their RHQ was in Enniskillen, Co. Fermanagh, which is part of Northern Ireland. In 1961 they amalgamated with the Royal Ulster Rifles and the Royal Irish Fusiliers to become the Royal Irish Rangers. Then again in 1992 they merged with the UDR (Ulster Defence Regiment) to form the Royal Irish Regiment. Their pipers did (and still do) wear saffron.

I have a saffron kilt which I enjoy wearing very much. I believe the Stillwater Saffron kilts are actually a "shadow tartan"?

[macwilkin]

The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers were formed in 1881 and their RHQ was in Enniskillen, Co. Fermanagh, which is part of Northern Ireland. In 1961 they amalgamated with the Royal Ulster Rifles and the Royal Irish Fusiliers to become the Royal Irish Rangers. Then again in 1992 they merged with the UDR (Ulster Defence Regiment) to form the Royal Irish Regiment. Their pipers did (and still do) wear saffron.

I have a saffron kilt which I enjoy wearing very much. I believe the Stillwater Saffron kilts are actually a "shadow tartan"?

Pretty common knowledge, though...most of the above facts are found in Murphy and Harris, as well as on regimental web sites -- I'm specifically looking for primary source information that dates the adoption of the saffron kilt to pipers of Irish regiments at mid 19th century.

T.

[slohairt]

Of course! (And it took me all of one minute to find it! ) I was posting the information mainly to show when and where the RIF were established, not to imply that their pipers started wearing the saffron at that time.

[macwilkin]

Of course! (And it took me all of one minute to find it! ) I was posting the information mainly to show when and where the RIF were established, not to imply that their pipers started wearing the saffron at that time.

oh..my apologies for the misunderstanding.

T.