Please tell me what makes a GREAT tartan design.

[McMurdo]

Actually, from the standpoint of design, what meanings people invent for colours is irrelevant. A rose by any other name smells as sweet, and colours strike the eye because of their hue and for no other reason.

It's a purely modern notion, trying to assign meanings to various colours used in a tartan. Originally weavers just picked colours they liked, and today most tartans are designed that way too.

Seems to me that picking the colours to be used in a tartan by the arbitrary meanings somebody invents for some colours creates a liability, a handicap for the designer and if a good design results it's in spite of, rather than because of, the method of colour choice.

A perfect example is all the awful-looking "American" or "American bicentennial" tartans which were created in the 1970's. Red white and blue looks great for flags- hey it works for the French and the British among many others- but it's a poor way to begin designing a tartan.
By far the most successful "American" tartan is American Heritage which seemed to say "the heck with it... black makes for a strong tartan, and red, white, and blue are going to have to take the back seat." And note the blue isn't the blue used in the US flag but a light blue. So the requirements of a strong design trumped the use of the colours of the US/British/French flag.

As a graphic designer for over 20 years I must disagree with your first point, as any design needs a jumping off place All the designs I've been a part of had a reason behind them including the colours used. I realize that there are some awfully loud tartans out there including the Bicentenial that you mention, in fact Scotty Thompson used it in his book, I seem to have misplaced my copy.

I would say selecting your colours first is the only way to go, I'm sure other people see things differently than I, however as I said I've been designing for some time, and the choice of colour for any design is really the first thing I do.

The original poster asked the following:

Could you please let me know what you think makes a tartan design GREAT.

Therefore I put forth what I thought made a great design. Please do not presume to dictate to me what my personal feelings are sir. You have your point of view based on your personal history, and I have mine based as I say on 20 years of graphic design and the fact that I've been an artist my entire life. We may simply have to agree to disagree.

[OC Richard]

Yes I suppose we must agree to disagree. I too have been an artist by profession my entire life.

My point was that, as far as we know, tartan designers in the old days picked colours they fancied.

This notion of having your starting point being the meaning some individual applies to a certain colour, I think, is quite recent.

Colour is colour, it is abstract, it is a result of the laws of physics. Colours have no inherent meaning. (An example is how one culture might see the colour of death and mourning being black, another culture white. Black and white themselves are simply colours and have nothing to do with death.)

It's usually, in my experience, been non-artists who want to create a design by starting out with non-artistic considerations.

An example is the field of logo design. I see logos every day being used by small companies that were obviously designed in accordance to the "specs" laid down by the company owner. People who own companies, especially smaller companies, always seem to want a picture of whatever their company makes or does as part of their logo. It's the bigger companies who "get it", who realise that an effective design makes an effective logo. In other words, the best logos are designed from an artistic standpoint, not the standpoint of non-artistic considerations like making a picture of something.

Mecedes' logo isn't a picture of a car, it's a simple strong design.

So in the back of my mind I think "here we go again" when somebody has a tartan and they say "the blue stands for the sky over Montana (or the sea around Hawaii or a baboon's butt or whatever). Blue is blue. Does it look effective in that particular design or not?

[McMurdo]

I actually think that tartan designers of old pick colours that they could reproduce locally using the elements around them. I completely agree with you regarding logos and Mecedes is a great example of strong design, the same can be said for Shell, Coca Cola and others. However I still believe one of the first considerations for the artist be it graphic art or not is colour.

My point is you need a place to start any design, personally when I start a design I do have to at least consider colour.

[Lyle1]

[QUOTE=OC Richard;839115]The first thing, explaining why we like something, is the hard part. I took a lot of art classes and many instructors banned the word "like". Their point was that it was that it's very easy to say we like or don't like something, and doing so requires no thought. The hard part is to put aside like/don't like and to really discuss what makes a piece of art effective. This applies to tartans, as each tartan is a work of art, a painting or composition in a way.

I don't have an artist's vocabulary, and I don't want to start a semantic argument, but I do agree with you. My personal likes or dislikes might impact what I buy, or collect, or seek out, but I am also often attracted to or intrigued by designs that do not necessarily speak to my personal aesthetic. I don't want to take them home with me, but I am often glad I had the chance to experience them.

[Lyle1]

I actually think that tartan designers of old pick colours that they could reproduce locally using the elements around them. I completely agree with you regarding logos and Mecedes is a great example of strong design, the same can be said for Shell, Coca Cola and others. However I still believe one of the first considerations for the artist be it graphic art or not is colour.

My point is you need a place to start any design, personally when I start a design I do have to at least consider colour.

Of course color is important, but are you choosing colors because they visually work for your design, or are the colors chosen because those colors have some symbolic meaning? You can do both, but the symbolic meaning of a chosen color does not guarantee that the color will be good for the design.

[McMurdo]

Of course color is important, but are you choosing colors because they visually work for your design, or are the colors chosen because those colors have some symbolic meaning? You can do both, but the symbolic meaning of a chosen color does not guarantee that the color will be good for the design.

I've never designed a tartan before I was talking about design in general. The colours I choose have everything to do with good design not some symbolic meaning.