Tartan proliferation -- good or bad?

[ForresterModern]

I am with Rex. Not every tartan has to have special symbolic or historical reason for its existence. Some may simply be an expression of an artistic person wishing to make a new tartan, and to register it as such similar to copyrighting one's other unique materials. I see no harm in more tartans----if you are not interested in them just don't look at them. But somebody else might be interested in them for some particular reason and should have the right to see them if they choose, and that goes for registration as well. Live and let live, tartan and let tartan, each in his own way, with respect for one another.

[n5rmj]

When tartans were first used, it seems there was at least one tartan for each weaver. Later, these tartans became more standardized and associated with particular groups or locations. As Scots have spread out over the world and the population has increase, one would naturally expect the number of tartans to grow. More clans and more districts add up to more tartans. I think we can agree on that.

However, I think the real problem is the number of vanity tartans created by folks who know little, if anything, about tartans, kilts, history, clans, or good design. What should we do to curb not just dilution of the tartan's impact and meaning, but, more importantly, ruining the art form through the proliferation of a lot of junk? I'm not sure that minimum requirements would necessarily solve that issue. But the Register is set up so any new tartan must be checked against existing registered tartans and a fee must be paid. I believe those two requirements are all we need. The Keeper collects some coin and good setts are protected.

That does not solve the problem created when folks develop and weave setts without going through the registration process. But if those folks are just indulging in vanity tartans, the impact is minimal and should not affect our sensibilities.

[skauwt]

i think the "Register of Tartans" is a good idea ,
i see it mainly just for a cross reference use and after all how many of the tartans on the register are actually spun into material other than digital images the register is just that ....a register full of data
does anyone know how many tartans are actually produced into material?

[lethearen]

I went to the grocery store yesterday eve, donned in kilt and kit. I had my matching tartan scarf loosely draped over my shoulders. As I walked through the store, I noticed that I was surrouned by tartan! Every aisle had another scarf or skirt proudly displaying the wearer's Burberry heritage. I didn't know that family was so extensive

It happens often, really. I notice tartan much more since my first kilting than I ever did in the past, and it helps that there's more of it out there nowadays. I notice even when I'm not kilted. And what I notice is that it's all the same. I see some Black Watch... maybe some Royal Stewart... and lots and lots of Burberry.

It does make me feel good to know that no one is wearing the same pattern I am, be it in scarf or skirt (kilt included). Even if nary a soul notices that my scarf is different, I do, and it makes me feel good to wear sheep instead of being one. I know there are a fair number of Fergusons on the board, and lots of people worldwide who would sport "my" tartan, but compare them to the number of people wearing what some company tells them is fashionable...

That said, I think there needs to be a third option... "Does it really matter?"

How many tartans is the right number? Looking at the Scottish Tartan Authority, they have a figure saying the registration numbers are approaching 7,000. SEVEN THOUSAND. That shocked me... I think I remembered just a couple years ago hearing that there were around 4 or 5 thousand registered. Anyway. So that number fuels both sides of the argument regarding whether there are too many or never enough...

* If you want to be unique, just poke around. You'll find a tartan that no one has ever even heard of. Think about how many people we have on this board and how often you still see people asking about tartans. People are going to know one or two and that's about it. The typical person wouldn't know the difference between Burberry and Thompson Camel. Or Ferguson and MacLaren. Or Loud MacLeod and Isle of Skye for that matter. You can very well pick something that is already out there instead of watering down the "meaning" of the tartan by making your own.

* But if you throw a bucket of water into the ocean, are you really watering it down? At 7,000 registered tartans, what's one more? Or ten more? If you want a tartan that means something special, chances are you have a good idea what you're looking for -- you're not going to be hindered by the innumerable options. If you're looking for something that just looks good, then aren't more options better than fewer?

When it comes down to it, I don't want everyone running around with the same tartan as me, even if it's just a scarf. I don't want that pattern to become trendy. I might be forced to seek a different tartan if it did

But in the grand scheme of things, if you choose a tartan that isn't "mainstream", then chances are the only person the plaid will mean anything to is you. Anyone else will just notice it's not Burberry. Or whatever. If they even pay that much attention to it. People will just see a plaid scarf and leave it at that.

So if you're the only person you'll ever meet who will care what tartan you're wearing... why not create your own?

To traditionalists or purists, maybe it waters down the sentiment behind the tartan, the sense of belonging. If you belong to a group of one, do you belong at all? And if I had to agree with one of the extremes listed as choices in this poll, then I'd say we don't need any more.

But at the same time...........

[Tobus]

The typical person wouldn't know the difference between Burberry and Thompson Camel. Or Ferguson and MacLaren. Or Loud MacLeod and Isle of Skye for that matter. You can very well pick something that is already out there instead of watering down the "meaning" of the tartan by making your own.

But isn't it also watering down the meaning if people just pick what they like?

Seems to me that the only real way to keep the meaning of tartans from being watered down is to limit the number of tartans and then limit who is allowed to wear them. Neither of which is going to happen.

But if you throw a bucket of water into the ocean, are you really watering it down? At 7,000 registered tartans, what's one more? Or ten more?

That's a fair point. I guess we should look at tartans like last names (since they have been historically tied to each other). I'm sure there are more than 7,000 different last names floating around in the world. Yet each person considers his or her last name to be meaningful. And it helps them identify with others. If people are making up new last names to go by, does it water down the meaning of our last names? No. Does it drive us mad trying to keep track of all the possible last names out there? Hmm, again, no.

So maybe if we just think of tartans like surnames, it can put it all in perspective. *shrug*

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Those of you who read The Scottish Banner paper will find my column in March to be dealing with this very topic. So instead of repeating my thoughts on the matter here, you'll just have to wait for it in the press! :-)

[Jordan]

Those of you who read The Scottish Banner paper will find my column in March to be dealing with this very topic. So instead of repeating my thoughts on the matter here, you'll just have to wait for it in the press! :-)

And how about the rest of us who cant get your local paper? any chance of a sneek preview?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

And how about the rest of us who cant get your local paper? any chance of a sneek preview?

It's not a local paper, it goes out all over the USA, Canada, and Australia and New Zealand.
http://www.scottishbanner.com/
Anyone can subscribe and they will ship worldwide.

I also keep an archive of my past columns written for them here:
http://albanach.org/banner.htm

I update it usually a couple of months behind the current issue.

[ForresterModern]

As a member of Clan Forrester, a society founded in the US in the Early 1960s, with a clan tartan designed and registered in 1987 (Forrester Modern) and a second tartan registered in 1993 (Forrester Hunting), I realise that as a border family the highland concept of clan and its associated tartan is a bit of a stretch historically. But the clan was organized centuries ago, only recently to join the older clans with thier own tartan heritage only a few centuries older. I look back and wonder if there would have ever been a formal Forrester clan tartan designed and registered, woven and propagated had their not been that availability of the Scottish tartans authority/registry or other defining body.

I care not if I am the only one wearing my family tartan virtually everywhere I go---the only other time I have seen it worn was the first day I was kilted, and only five minutes after I entered the Phoenix Highland Games in 2008 when I ran into another Foster in Forrester Modern---have not seen it anywhere since. And I have never seen another Forrester Hunting kilt, or even the tartan, anywhere, except in catalogues and online tartan lists. I had to have mine custom woven because the only known weaver, Strathmore, does not even stock it unless my own society orders a run for thier clan family store online. Okay, I have seen them in the photo gallery on the clan website, but otherwise nowhere else in real life. I just recently found another forrester clansman here on the forum, making two of us I believe that have come out of the closet so far.

Just becasue my tartan is rare, or not really historical, or not popular, or unrecognizable to most others, even those that are tartan savvy, does not make it any less precious to me or to the others who designed it, registered it, and who choose to wear it. I would never consider attempting to diminish another's rights to the same enjoyment by limiting their ability to design and register a tartan for whatever purpose or whim they desire, whether heritage related or not. So I cannot see a legitimate reason to "limit" the numbers or varieties of tartans out there.

As others have said, some newer ones will have more mass appeal and become popular (IoS for example of a recently designed and registered but now highly popular and visible tartan) and will have long staying power, others will have a limited but genuinely valued run carried on in small but regular clan or society circles, some may be a flash in the pan (Bright Skye, one can only hope) and then disappear into obscurity, and others may only be woven once so that they can be formally registered and documented. The more the merrier, I say.

jeff

[Brian K]

I have participated in a few threads since I became active in this forum, but this is the first one in which I feel I have a personal stake. I have been designing tartans using the Scotweb Tartan Designer since the middle of December so I am probably a bit biased on this subject. Of course, none of mine have been woven, let alone registered so, as David would put it, my who knows how many designs are "non-starters." I do it for the fun of it but I would enjoy designing a tartan for an individual or a club and, if financial lightning ever strikes, I'd like to have one or more of my designs woven for my personal use.

I started a couple threads here with some of my designs and the one that actually got some responses made me feel pretty good because people seem to like what I have done. Ancienne Alliance has told me that he and Lady Chrystel feel most of my designs would make excellent kilts. (You can imaging how much that must have swollen my head!) I had another member approach me privately to help design a tartan for a club of his because he has not been happy with his own efforts. Of course, I will not consider myself a "real" designer until someone has one of my designs registered and woven.

I know of two other X Marks members that are active designers at Scotweb. One has registered three of her designs in the last month or so and another registered his just a few days ago (on his 10th wedding anniversary!) and Rex Tremende has chronicled his adventures in using the Scotweb designer to design a tartan and actually having cloth woven from that design in another thread. Matt Newsome and Rocky Roeger design tartans as well as making kilts.

All that being said, I am not trying to brag about anyone here, myself included, but simply aim to state what the actual state of affairs is in the tartan world. For good or for ill people and organizations of all sorts will always want to create something they feel "belongs" to them - something they identify with in a way they do no other design. If you are a purist this will offend your sensibilities. If they can't find something they like or are entitled to that already exists then, well...too bad, deal with it.

Intellectually I understand the idea of "clogging" the Register or "diluting" the meaning of tartan, but realistically I am not personally comfortable with the idea of turning the Register into the dreaded Tartan Police. The Register is a list created to make sure that the same sett is not listed as belonging to two or more different individuals or groups. They don't say who can wear what and don't hand out citations for inappropriate use of tartan. I don't know as even the Lord Lyon does that other than in cases of outright fraud.

As long as people look for ways to distinguish themselves as individuals or wish to find a way to identify members of a group we will see new tartans designed and I am not comfortable with the idea of a body who could say "We're sorry, but we don't like your design - you can't register it or weave it. Here's a perfectly good tartan that already exists. Use it instead."

Sure there will be a lot of awful tartans out there (I've designed enough clunkers of my own!) but I am inclined to err on the side of freedom over restriction anyway.

By the way, Matt, will you post a link to your banner article to this thread when it becomes available on your site?

Regards,

Brian

P.S. My avatar is a tartan I designed.