"Cookie Cutter" Pipe Band Dress

[OC Richard]

To my mind band uniforms (or costumes as you have characterized them) have nothing to do with present day traditional civilian attire. People don't dress like they are in a pipe band when attending a wedding, or going to dinner with their wife to cite but two examples.

I beg to differ, as on these very forums there have been quite a large number of people posting photos of men in kilts attending weddings and other functions wearing black argyll jackets, white hose, ghillies, and the sorts of sporrans popular amongst pipe bands today (evening, day, and hunting).

Pop a glengarry on their head and a set of pipes in their hand and they could join in with most pipe bands and no one would notice. (And a few pipe bands do still wear balmorals, though they're considered somewhat old fashioned nowadays, due to their being so popular amongst pipe bands in the 1970s.)

Now, the question of whether this style of dress ought to be worn at weddings and other functions is another matter.

The question of what makes something "historical" as opposed to "traditional" is a difficult one to answer, but to me the difference between the two terms is continuity of use. So, the Great Kilt strikes me as historical, as it fell out of favour for nearly two centuries before undergoing a revival in recent times. Ghillie brogues, kilt jackets, Glengarries, and the rest of modern pipe band kit are traditional because there has been an unbroken lineage of use from their first appearance down to the present. They're all to be seen in The Highlanders of Scotland, in a vast number of Victorian and Edwardian photos, and in catalogues of Highland Dress makers througout the 1920s through the 1950s to today.

I didn't always realise this myself. When pipe bands and others began wearing black Argyll jackets around 1980 they struck me as novel. They combined the cut of a tweed Argyll day jacket and the fabric and buttons of a Prince Charlie. I thought of them as something new concocted to meet the needs of pipe bands, who were at that time abandoning the way they used to dress, which was either in full military style dress, civilian Evening Dress (complete with tartan hose and buckled shoes), or civilian Day Dress. At that time, in the late 1970's, many pipe bands, wanting something dressier than Day Dress but more practical than Evening Dress, were going to an odd concoction: Balmoral, Prince Charlie, long necktie, Evening sporran, bulky hand knit Aran hose, and ghillies. But by the mid-1980s the black Argyll swept away all in its path.

Well then I started seeing the occasional photo of a band or individual wearing black Argyll jackets in the 1930s etc. They appear in Highland Dress catalogues from the 1930s but only as dress for boys. A Highland Dress catalogue I have from the 1950s mentions them but does not list them. They appear to have no name for it but rather describe it.

Then jackets very much like it are to be seen in The Highlanders of Scotland, making me realise that they had always been around, but not very popular.

So even the black Argyll jacket, the universal modern pipe band look, goes back to the mid 19th century at least.

Anyhow, back to the subject of "cookie cutter" tartans, a comparison of the tartans worn at the 2007 and 2004 World Pipe Band Championships shows a huge increase in the use of bespoke/custom tartans (by bands or other institutions), trade tartans, and district tartans, and a decrease in tartans such as Royal Stuart.

Tartans appearing in 2007 which do not appear in 2004:

Monarch of the Glen
Scottish National
Scotland Forever
Spirit of Lanarkshire
Alvi
City of Rome
City of Brechin
Connemara
Niagra District
Ross and Cromarty
Roxburgh
Toronto Fire
Strathclyde Fire and Rescue
Drumalig (the bespoke tartan recently adopted by Field Marshal Montgomery, replacing Royal Stuart)
Cowal Highland Gathering
University of Strathclyde
Rangers (the football club I presume)
Grampain Police
Australian Highlanders

plus clan tartans such as Elliot, Fergusuon, Graham of Menteith, Gunn, Nicholson, and Scott.

I find it interesting the number of bands wearing modern trade etc tartans such as
Flower of Scotland
Holyrood
Millenium
Scotland 2000
Scotland the Brave
Spirit of Scotland
Scottish National
Scotland Forever
Monarch of the Glen

and the large number of district tartans.

[Lachlan09]

Humour an old Brit ! What's meant by cookie-cutter dress ?

Does it mean highly repetitive ?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Richard,

I believe the intended purpose of this thread to be the discussion of civilian Highland attire in the post-Victorian/Edwardian period. In other words the type of everyday Highland attire worn either shortly before or immediately after the 1914-1918 War, and how that mode of dress has become "traditional" within the Scottish community, and how it has evolved into those classic styles which have changed very little in the past 100 years or so.

I beg to differ, as on these very forums there have been quite a large number of people posting photos of men in kilts attending weddings and other functions wearing black argyll jackets, white hose, ghillies, and the sorts of sporrans popular amongst pipe bands today (evening, day, and hunting).

I don't disagree with your comment about photos, but I do think it needs to be looked at in some sort of context when you bring band uniforms into the discussion.

By and large (at least these days) pipe bands the world over tend to be private clubs of like-minded individuals who enjoy piping and marching. With the scant exception of those bands who enjoy the privilege of "the sky is the limit" funding, costs are-- and always have been-- a major concern for bands. I am sure you will agree that the single greatest cost (other than the pipes) facing a band is the cost of the band uniform. And since this cost is quite often, if not usually, borne in its entirety by the individual band member, the least expensive option is usually the one ticked off by the band.

Since it is hard, cold economics that dictate how a band will be uniformed and since not all bands have pockets as deep as the Saint Andrew's Society of Washington DC pipes, drums, and colour guard (www.saintandrewsociety.org), it is not surprising that they would elect to dress in the least expensive, most readily accessible outfit. Hence Argyll jackets and the other accouterments of civilian attire worn by bandsmen.

The question of what makes something "historical" as opposed to "traditional" is a difficult one to answer, but to me the difference between the two terms is continuity of use.

So, the Great Kilt strikes me as historical, as it fell out of favour for nearly two centuries before undergoing a revival in recent times. Ghillie brogues, kilt jackets, Glengarries, and the rest of modern pipe band kit are traditional because there has been an unbroken lineage of use from their first appearance down to the present.

I will admit that one can semantically "blur the line" between historical and traditional, but the distinction really isn't that hard to make, unless one wishes to engage in parsing arguments. It is easy to see that the great kilt falls into the historical category; however, in regard to your assertion that the Argyll is traditionally worn by pipe bands, one could as easily-- and in my mind more validly-- make the argument that historically and traditionally pipe bands have worn military style uniforms, and have only recently adopted inexpensive civilian attire as their costume when performing.

But even if defining the difference between traditional and historical attire was much more difficult, the difference between what is worn by a band, and what constitutes "ordinary" Highland attire, is clearly discernible. Bands may wear civilian attire as their costume when performing (at which point it becomes their uniform), but that fact doesn't really make the topic of band uniforms something that fits into the definition of ordinary civilian Highland attire.

Likewise, lengthy lists of what tartans are popular in the world of pipe bands seems merely to underscore that this thread really does belong somewhere else: Historical (because of the constant references to The Highlanders of Scotland); Celtic Music (because it is about bands); or maybe Tartans (because of the lists of tartans worn by bands). None of this places the discussion in a civilian context, which, I believe, the "Traditional" forum is all about.

Now, having said all of that-- I personally find your posts on the subject of pipe bands to be very interesting. It is, in my opinion, unfortunate that they are scattered all over the site, rather than pulled together in one forum. Perhaps Steve and the Mods should consider a dedicated Pipe Band forum, similar to the Heraldry forum, so that these postings can attract a wider audience?

MoR

[EagleJCS]

Being in a pipe band, I can understand both points of view and I think I understand why OC started the thread here.The main differences between what I wear with the band and what I wear away from the band are not that great. (There's a change in kilt, hose and sporran, but the general appearance is the same).

Pipe bands - both competitive and non-competitive - are generally more conservative in their attire than the average Highland Games attendee, even the clan tent representatives, at least here in the US. Most competing pipe bands, at least in this part of the country, try to hew closer to the line of "traditional" attire, albeit in a 'uniform' - meaning being dressed the same - manner. You likely won't see band members wearing some of the combinations we've seen in pics in other threads. Non-competitive bands are another thing altogether, and may be more 'Brigadoon-ish' if wearing things out of context just because they saw it somewhere else.

That said, competing pipe bands I'm familiar with also tend to "follow the herd" in regards to some aspects (wearing white hose - which is now changing to other colors as the costs come down; an odd style of sporran - neither 'daywear' nor 'eveningwear'; black Argyle jackets at any time of day; and so on). Many bands will copy the look of a popular or visually different band to try to set themselves apart from their competitors. In that respect, bands are not quite conforming to what is considered 'traditional' attire.

Referencing an old book for one's modern sartorial cues is probably not in one's best interest, but it does give everyone a common frame of reference as a starting point for discussion. It may be more instructive to say: "Have a look at so-and-so on page x. The modern look is similar, but we use this or omit that instead."

[BCTrucker]

Is not the nature and history of a Pipe band, a military inspired offering, thus making uniformity a necessary evil?
We're not talking a rock band here, where all are free to express their individuality, you are listening to a group of many who are aspiring to perform a tight, overwhelming, and some would say intimidating air of solidarity.
A single piper, I would dare say have the freedom to express some form of individuality, but, does the same conversation happen with an orchestra, or a brass marching band?
I think not, so why does the attire of a pipe band require srutiny of this magnitude?

[wildrover]

Why?

Because, with the possible exception of long-laced, open-tongue shoes, the historical progression of pipe band wear seems to be pointing toward the adoption of civilian daywear and eveningwear, as opposed to military-inspired or "gig suit"-similar attire.

SFU wears sharp civilian attire. I've seen photos of X-Marks members, similarly dressed...add pipes, and they could be part of the band.

The band with which I'm a student wears a similar outfit...or they would, if they'd drop the short-sleeve dress shirts, which IMHO look like a "uniform' no matter how you accessorize them.

-Sean

[CMcG]

In reading over the OP, it starts out by describing a band uniform that actually sounds like a regular Highland outfit and notes that tartans are the main differentiating factor amongst modern pipe bands. If it were only about tartans, this thread might be better suited to the Tartans section; if it actually mentioned music (it doesn't), it might be better suited to the Celtic Music section.

It seems to me that a Moderator might have moved this thread if it were really as out of place as some seem to think. Perhaps another thread might be needed to discuss the raison d'etre of this particular part of the forum.... rather than hijack this further, I shall therefore endeavor to relate this to Highland attire more generally.

Cookie cutter dress is altogether too common and we need look no further than mass-production, economies of scale, and tight consumer budgets for the main culprits. That being said, I suppose there are people who think looking exactly the same as others is a good thing, especially if they don't feel confident in their own sartorial judgement. What strikes me as odd is that pipe bands wouldn't try harder to differentiate themselves from the competition!

If between 2004 and 2007 there was an increase of different tartans at the World Pipe Band Championships, were there any corresponding change in the standard Glengarry, Argyll jacket, kilt, sporran type, solid coloured hose, and ghillies? A band with distinctive sporrans? Use of alternative pleating styles? Argyll jackets of a colour other than black?

[Hothir Ethelnor]

I think it would be fun to see a band wearing 7 yard kingussie kilts.

The closest Pipe Band to where I live is an amalgamation of many people (under the firefighter's banner) and each piper wears his own tartan. I think it's kind of neat. I think that for parades though, a fairly standardized combination (of accessories) is encouraged.

[Jock Scot]

MacLowlife.


You are asking me questions that are well beyond my ken!

[Bugbear]

We even have "Cookie Shooters" over here.