Where are the darts

**sydnie7** · 31st May 10, 08:40 AM

Oh, a yoke, of course (as opposed to a "yolk"). Interesting concept but still, not something I would try.

I am, however, trying to resist all the "yoke's on me" closing lines!

**Dixiecat** · 31st May 10, 12:21 PM

And I can't help but to refute the assertion about darts in a kilt. Technically, every pleat that tapers from the bottom of the fell to the waist is a dart. A dart removes excess fabric as the garment goes from a wider body part to a narrower body part (hip to waist) and that's exactly what the pleat taper does.

**Barb T** · 31st May 10, 06:42 PM

True, but that muddies the issue. What you *don't* want is a dart in the apron on the front (visible) side of the kilt. We actually have several kilts in our band that have darts in the apron, and they look *awful*. A properly made kilt doesn't need darts - even mine, which has a *17"* waist/hip differential......(most guys have, at most, 8" or so....).

**Dixiecat** · 2nd June 10, 11:27 AM

Absolutely agree on that Barb. Just saying that pleat taper = dart in achieving the same end effect.

**Bugbear** · 2nd June 10, 12:25 PM

Oh! I think I understand why the darts on an apron wouldn't work well with a traditional rise kilt like Barb is saying. It needs the ability to flare above the stabilizer line, and the darts are making the very top of the apron more narrow than everything below...

Not sure why you would need a dart in the apron since the fell of the pleats on their sides are serving that function in the first place.

Sorry, I'm a little slow in figuring it out.

**Kiltman** · 2nd June 10, 06:46 PM

Locally one person who makes costumes is famous for making kilts but they are not kilts they are skirts that look like kilts and have darts in the front that interrupt the tartan's pattern.
I know about the way they are made because once a year, on April 6, I give my students extra credit for wearing anything tartan. Several times one of them has rented a 'kilt' from the civic theater and I've been able to see that her fame as a kilt maker is not deserved. Of course, I've not said anything about this to the students, but several of us who make kilts in the Spokane area grit our teeth when someone comments on the great 'kilt' maker at the Civic theater.

**Dixiecat** · 2nd June 10, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bugbear

Not sure why you would need a dart in the apron since the fell of the pleats on their sides are serving that function in the first place.

Kilt making takes the difference between the hips and the waist and puts that difference in the back so that the front apron lies smooth. While it works for most people, it's not perfect. Especially for someone who has a small front waist compared to front hip. You can't always take all the front difference and move to the back.

**Bugbear** · 2nd June 10, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dixiecat

Kilt making takes the difference between the hips and the waist and puts that difference in the back so that the front apron lies smooth. While it works for most people, it's not perfect. Especially for someone who has a small front waist compared to front hip. You can't always take all the front difference and move to the back.

I see.

I also see Kiltman's point about darts standing out on tartan.

I was just thinking about how different my kilt was to wear after I worked in the flare at the top. It is a Stillwater, like the OP's, and it was tapered all the way to the top. The waistband was acting as a stabilizer and It kind of bit into my ribs, or wanted to slide down to my waist.

**Heming** · 15th June 10, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dixiecat

Kilt making takes the difference between the hips and the waist and puts that difference in the back so that the front apron lies smooth. While it works for most people, it's not perfect. Especially for someone who has a small front waist compared to front hip. You can't always take all the front difference and move to the back.

I can't help struggling with that statement... When I make kilts, as per TAoK, the aprons do taper from the bottom of the fell to the hip line, so that a fair bit of the hip/waist differential is compensated for in the front of the kilt. But, as the differential is taken in on each side of the apron, the apron edges will appear to be horizontal from waist to hip even if there's a significant taper, and the aprons do lie smooth in the front of the kilt (no darts there).

But I am no professional, I've only ever made four kilts, one of which not according to traditional standards.

**Barb T** · 19th June 10, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Heming

...the apron edges will appear to be horizontal from waist to hip even if there's a significant taper

I assume that you mean that the apron edges will appear to be _vertical_ from the waist to hip??

In any event, the bigger the waist-hip differential, the bigger the taper has to be on the edges of the apron. You just can't successfully take it all up in the pleats, or would you want to. If you didn't taper the apron edges (i.e., the apron edge were square), the top of the apron would wrap way more than half way around the body, and the apron edge would no longer be vertical but would slant back toward the back of the kilt, even if someone has a very flat stomach (just try it with a bath towel, if you don't see what I mean). As viewed from the front or back, women are narrower at the waist than at the hips, rather than being built "square". So the outline of the apron needs to take this into account.