Questions on the Newsome 4yrd Box Pleat or 8yrd Knife Pleat?

[davidlpope]

I have 4yd box-pleats, and 5, 6, and 8yd knife pleats, most made by Matt Newsome. My hands-down favorite kilt is my 6yd knife-pleat handmade by Matt, pictured below. It looks like a "traditional kilt"**, is made of heavyweight tartan, and is well-balanced (due to there being two less yards of fabric in the pleats)and comfortable in any climate that I've been in. It dresses up or down equally well and the craftsmanship is the best of any I've seen. In my mind it has all the benefits of the other styles with none of the drawbacks. I like it so much that I currently have another kilt of this type on order with Matt. I highly recommend this style and Matt's handiwork.








**I'm using the definition that I think most Highlanders would describe as a "traditional kilt", i.e. made of tartan, 8yds, knife pleated. It should be noted, though, that the 4yd box-pleated kilt is a historical, older form of the kilt, thus some would argue that it, in fact, is more "traditional".

[Mael Coluim]

David, Prince Charles has nothing over you! Well, maybe next in line for a Kingdom.

[xman]

... reminds me and others, of girls' school uniform skirts in tartan.

I am reminded of a roman battle skirt actually.

[Howard Clark]

Well that may in fact all be true. But here, in the US, it doesn't much matter what style of pleating the kilt has, you are an oddity in wearing it anyway. So, I would rather be comfortable, with the less weight, and better balance of the box pleat kilt.

Having said that, when I visited London this spring, the eight yard knife pleated kilt is what was worn to and from whilst flying, and when we went to the museums, and out on the town in the evening. I did not see another kilt anywhere while I was there for two weeks.

The social conventions regarding the kilt and it's design are very strong, and the eight yard knife pleated kilt certainly fits better in them. But here, where I live, very few people know the difference. I wear the kilt for me, because I like it, it is comfortable, and it suits my work as a blacksmith. Standing all the time, hot work environment, no one else here. So box pleat kilts with low yardage, and usually not wool tartan in the shop. Though one of my work kilts is 18 oz.MoD surplus tartan. It gets used more in cooler weather.

The staunch traditionalists will almost all vote for the knife pleated kilt at eight yards, as is there right. I lean that way in many things, but not this one.

[Jock Scot]

Actually Matt to British eyes, particularly ones over 40, box pleats do remind us very much of school girls' skirts. This is perhaps a cultural thing as I don't know that box pleats in North America have the same connection.I suspect that they don't. Maybe that is why knife pleated kilts are the accepted way of pleating the kilt on this side of the pond.We also do not have the sort of heat that many of you chaps have to endure and of course your winters in the northern parts of North America are something that we over here can only imagine.

To those that want box pleats then go ahead, there are undoubted advantages with them, but in my humble opinion looks are not one of them! Do not expect kilt makers in Scotland to make a kilt with them(they might,but I doubt it) either and don't expect Box pleats to impress in the land where the knife pleated kilt is king. Regardless of what the historical evidence quite correctly says.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

To those that want box pleats then go ahead, there are undoubted advantages with them, but in my humble opinion looks are not one of them! Do not expect kilt makers in Scotland to make a kilt with them(they might,but I doubt it) either and don't expect Box pleats to impress in the land where the knife pleated kilt is king. Regardless of what the historical evidence quite correctly says.

Thanks for your input, Jock. You've stated several times in the past that box pleated kilts are not the recognized norm in Scotland, and I believe that everyone recognizes that fact. They are not the recognized norm in America, either.

Safe to say, across the globe, when most people think "kilt" what they have in mind is knife pleated and made of a nominal eight yards of cloth. It's the standard.

What the original poster is asking is for those who have worn both styles, what differences they may have noticed.

For the record, I've shipped several of my four yard box pleated kilts across to the UK (both Scotland and England), so someone over there must like the style!

[Jock Scot]

Thanks for your input, Jock. You've stated several times in the past that box pleated kilts are not the recognized norm in Scotland, and I believe that everyone recognizes that fact. They are not the recognized norm in America, either.

Safe to say, across the globe, when most people think "kilt" what they have in mind is knife pleated and made of a nominal eight yards of cloth. It's the standard.

What the original poster is asking is for those who have worn both styles, what differences they may have noticed.

For the record, I've shipped several of my four yard box pleated kilts across to the UK (both Scotland and England), so someone over there must like the style!

I know that I might sound like a stuck record Matt, but what needs to be made clear to those considering the box pleated kilt is that they are not usual over here and the apparent shock to some that they(box pleated kilt) are not common in the UK, is so very obvious(to me anyway) on occasion.The OP is not an old hand here, so I thought pointing out this fact to him and perhaps others, might be helpful with his decision making. I don't doubt for a second that there are box pleated kilts in the UK, but very few and far between.That is all I was trying to point out, apart from the "school girl skirt syndrome" that we seem to recognise over here.

[seanachie]

I know that I might sound like a stuck record Matt, but what needs to be made clear to those considering the box pleated kilt is that they are not usual over here and the apparent shock to some that they(box pleated kilt) are not common in the UK, is so very obvious(to me anyway) on occasion.The OP is not an old hand here, so I thought pointing out this fact to him and perhaps others, might be helpful with his decision making. I don't doubt for a second that there are box pleated kilts in the UK, but very few and far between.That is all I was trying to point out, apart from the "school girl skirt syndrome" that we seem to recognise over here.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, and I am asking this in the interogative,
is it not a little sad that something with verifiable historical accuracy would be denigrated as a school girls skirt? I enjoy learning the history and tradition on this board and it seems disheartening that this part of one's heritage would be essentially disowned.

[Jock Scot]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, and I am asking this in the interogative,
is it not a little sad that something with verifiable historical accuracy would be denigrated as a school girls skirt? I enjoy learning the history and tradition on this board and it seems disheartening that this part of one's heritage would be essentially disowned.

In many ways you are so right, but the truth is that the civilian box pleated kilt is almost unknown by most Scots of today. Why that is I suppose, is just an accident of history that no one can really explain. Now in the 1940/50/60/70 and maybe even to this day at some schools(I doubt it!) the box pleated skirt was standard issue for school girls and their school uniforms. Yes in those days all school children had to wear a school uniform and the girls wore box pleated skirts. That is why to many(those that are aware) of us over here think that the box pleated kilt looks like a skirt and it really does. That is a part of "our" history that perhaps you chaps outside the UK have not understood.

[Sir William]

I've got 4 8 yard knife-pleated kilts, with one more on the way, and 2 4-yard box pleated kilts, with another on the way. I've also got a 6 yard double-box kilt. Most are 16oz, with a couple in 13oz.

I like the distrobution of weight in the 4 yard, but I like the swish provided by the 8 yard. From a historical factor, I like the 4 yard box pleat, but I also realize that many consider the 8 yard knife pleated kilt to be a "real" kilt.

Bottom line, I like and wear both styles. Which one I wear tends to be based more on the tartan than on the style. We have uncomfortable heat and humidity here in Virginia as well, but I don't give that any consideration when I choose which kilt to wear.