Was Tartan ever actually banned?

[Bugbear]

I see what you mean.

All I know is that Highlanders were still wearing tartan and kilts after the bann, so it is a little off to think scraps of tartan were being hidden away and that is how they survived...

[Mike_Oettle]

Artificer, you took the words out of my mouth!
Regards,
Mike

[Kilted-Marine]

Traditions like Kirkin of the tartan, Burns Dinner, Dipping the edge of a new kilt into scotch, and other new and old TRADITIONS, have to start somewhere

[macwilkin]

Traditions like Kirkin of the tartan, Burns Dinner, Dipping the edge of a new kilt into scotch, and other new and old TRADITIONS, have to start somewhere

No one is disputing that, Mark. The issue is that many groups, games, etc. are promoting a history of the Kirkin' service that simply has no basis in the historical record. As I mentioned earlier, the real history of the service, which was first held at the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church during the Second World War, is far more moving than the legend that has grown-up in the Diaspora communities in Canada, the USA and Australia. The Rev. Dr. Peter Marshall ("A Man Called Peter"), a Presbyterian minister from Coatbridge, is credited with being the originator of the service. I have of sermons from the original Kirkin', and no where does Dr. Marshall mention "the legend".

I have organized our society's Kirkin' for over a decade now, and I try to make it as close to Dr. Marshall's original intent as possible.

T.

[Kilted-Marine]

CajunScot

I was not trying to argue your point either. I understand where you are coming from, I was sort of suggesting that some traditions start in fact, move to fiction and end up as legend.

The question for ME is - "Is it important that people KNOW why they are doing something or is it more important that they are doing it"

Depending on the event the answer to that question may be different.

Kirkin of the tartan - Is to ask a blessing on the tartans (and those families which fall under them).
Does it REALLY matter when, how, why it started?
If a person never knows the real story - does it matter?

Just a few questions i have to ask myself

[xman]

Thanks for setting me straight gents.

[macwilkin]

CajunScot

I was not trying to argue your point either. I understand where you are coming from, I was sort of suggesting that some traditions start in fact, move to fiction and end up as legend.

The question for ME is - "Is it important that people KNOW why they are doing something or is it more important that they are doing it"

Depending on the event the answer to that question may be different.

Kirkin of the tartan - Is to ask a blessing on the tartans (and those families which fall under them).
Does it REALLY matter when, how, why it started?
If a person never knows the real story - does it matter?

Just a few questions i have to ask myself

As a history instructor, I feel that it does matter, because the original intent of the service wasn't even to "bless" tartans, given that it was a Presbyterian minister who started it. Dr. Marshall was trying to rally Scottish-American organizations (he was a member of the St. Andrew's Societies of Atlanta and Washington DC) to raise money for an effort to relocate children in Glasgow and Edinburgh to the Highlands to escape Nazi bombing raids in a "Kirkin' of the tartans".

As an Epsicopalian, I have no problem with blessing tartans and the families they represent. My issue is with a inaccurate history of the service which is now accepted as "gospel" by many. As any native Scot will tell you, they have never heard or participated in such a service in the auld country. I personally believe the Scottish diaspora community should embrace the Kirkin' as our own tradition, and not try to create some romantic legend as a justification. To me, it's far more inspiring to have the descendants of Scottish immigrants helping the auld country during WWII than the legend that has sprung up.

I know a lot folks subscribe to the John Ford School of history -- "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend" -- while I love John Ford, as a historian, I fight against that way of thinking everyday.

T.

[davidlpope]

Kirkin of the tartan - Is to ask a blessing on the tartans (and those families which fall under them).
Does it REALLY matter when, how, why it started?
If a person never knows the real story - does it matter?

Your post directly exhibits the problem that Todd has raised. The genuine and authentic purpose of the "Kirking of the Tartans" was not to "bless" tartan or the "clans" that each tartan represents, but rather to motivate Americans to provide assistance to the Scots (and British more generally) during their war efforts to defeat Germany. Instead, the erroneous (albeit romantic) myth that has been created out of whole cloth has so choked out the reality that kilt-wearers, whom one would expect to be more "in the know" than the average man on the street, believe that the purpose of this observance is to "bless" tartans and "clans".

So, yes, knowing the real story is vitally important to ensure that such fallacies don't continue to exist.

David

[davidlpope]

As a history instructor, I feel that it does matter, because the original intent of the service wasn't even to "bless" tartans, given that it was a Presbyterian minister who started it.

As an Epsicopalian, I have no problem with blessing tartans and the families they represent.

Todd,

Excellent point. As a Presbyterian, myself, I am always amazed at how many Presbyterian churches do a "Kirking of the Tartans" observance in which the tartans are "blessed". Knox is positively spinning in his grave!

David

[Bugbear]

As a history instructor, I feel that it does matter, because the original intent of the service wasn't even to "bless" tartans, given that it was a Presbyterian minister who started it. Dr. Marshall was trying to rally Scottish-American organizations (he was a member of the St. Andrew's Societies of Atlanta and Washington DC) to raise money for an effort to relocate children in Glasgow and Edinburgh to the Highlands to escape Nazi bombing raids in a "Kirkin' of the tartans".

As an Epsicopalian, I have no problem with blessing tartans and the families they represent. My issue is with a inaccurate history of the service which is now accepted as "gospel" by many. As any native Scot will tell you, they have never heard or participated in such a service in the auld country. I personally believe the Scottish diaspora community should embrace the Kirkin' as our own tradition, and not try to create some romantic legend as a justification. To me, it's far more inspiring to have the descendants of Scottish immigrants helping the auld country during WWII than the legend that has sprung up.

I know a lot folks subscribe to the John Ford School of history -- "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend" -- while I love John Ford, as a historian, I fight against that way of thinking everyday.

T.

Kind of sounds like folklore... I suppose it might be interesting to look at the ways folklore plays a role in how people of an era view their history.