Sporrans and 'real' sporrans.

[JSFMACLJR]

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[ctbuchanan]

I have one major criteria in a day sporran and that is usefulness. It is after all a pocket so must be able to accommodate all the things I wish to have with me during the day. The "hard" leather sporrans often sold do not meet this criteria. A day sporran should be soft, preferably brown, and able to expand when I start stuffing things into it.

My elk skin falconers bag meets my needs and is my favorite day sporran.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

The idea of traditional is an illusion. The "traditional" kilt is a great example of this. Many consider the "8" yard knife pleated kilt to be traditional, when in fact that came about in the past 100 to 150 years.

While I can't speak as to the length of the yardage in a kilt dating from, say, 1745 I can say with some certainty that the "little kilt" certainly wasn't unknown in the mid 18th century. And, if contemporary portraits are anything to go by (as well as the written records left by travelers visiting Scotland in the 16th-17th centuries) then I would have to say that the historic great kilt probably only existed for a period of not more than about 100 years. While it is true that the act of proscription in 1746 did much to discourage the wearing of the kilt, it did not extinguish it as a mode of dress throughout the Highlands. Again there are ample illustrations of the "little" kilt being worn by all classes of Highlanders during this period, until 1782 when the act is repealed. So what we see, if we look at 200 years of kilt wearing from 1582 until 1782 is that the kilt is evolving. That evolution seems to slow down until sometime immediately after the visit of George IV to Scotland in 1822, and by 1842, the time of Queen Victoria's first visit to Scotland, and on down to the present day, the kilt will undergo very few changes. Nothing illusory here.

Now, why bother with this chronology of the kilt? Well, because it helps to illustrate three periods in the evolution of the kilt: the historical kilt of the 16th and 17th centuries, the changing kilt of the 18th and early 19th centuries, and the traditional kilt which dates from more or less the mid-19th century and, for all intents and purposes unchanged, is still worn today.

Eight yards of material is not practical for hunting, farming or any other highland activity.

I have no idea how practical-- or impractical-- an eight yard kilt may be when plowing a field, or fishing in a stream, or sitting at a loom weaving cloth in a Highland cottage. I do know that the yardage in a kilt will vary with the build of the wearer, and that an eight yard kilt is going to be warmer than a four yard kilt. All things considered, I would image that there is no such thing as the oft referred to eight yard kilt, although I would suspect that on average most kilts made for adults would probably run pretty close to this length of yardage.

In short the "traditional" kilt is in fact modern and what is referred to as the modern "casual" kilt may in actuality be traditional. Be practical and comfortable, then you will be in the same spirit of the original kilt wearers.

I think I would agree with the second half of your statement, and I might buy into the first part if by "modern" you mean a product of the 19th century rather than something created in, say, the last ten or twenty years. I would certainly agree that the kilt can be comfortable when made and worn as intended, although kilt wearing traditionalist that I am, I think calling a kilt practical in the 21st century is a bit of a romantic stretch.

All of that said, I am greatly impressed with the skills and abilities you have obviously acquired as a kilt maker, and would urge other X-markers to check out the photos on your profile page. Tailoring, like playing the bag pipes, is a talent which I simply do not possess, and I admire greatly in others.

[ThistleDown]

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[GG]

Be practical and comfortable, then you will be in the same spirit of the original kilt wearers.

It is a very good point. I really like it.

Greg

[OC Richard]

The idea of traditional is an illusion. If you look at the history of the kilt all these things labeled "traditional" are actually modern.

The "traditional" kilt is a great example of this. Many consider the "8" yard knife pleated kilt to be traditional, when in fact that came about in the past 100 to 150 years.

You're using the word "traditional" in a different sense than I use the word, and how it's used for example in the music world.

"Traditional" doesn't mean never-changing. Something that's "traditional" is something that has come down to the present time in an unbroken sequence of evolutionary changes.

So the handsewn 8-yard kilt as it's been made since the late 19th century is "traditional" because it evolved from the early 19th century kilt which evolved from the 18th century kilt which evolved from the belted plaid in an unbroken evolutionary process.

Now, if you go back and pluck one of those earlier kilts out of its original spot along the evolutionary path, and recreate it today, it's a "historical" kilt rather than a "traditional" kilt.

With sporrans, they followed a well-documented evolutionary path from the mid 18th century style with fully functioning brass cantle and leather body, to the late 18th century style with fur, with the fur becoming long hair in the early 19th century. By the mid 19th century long hair sporrans were worn in all modes of Highland Dress, civilian day wear with tweed jacket, evening wear, and military uniform.

By the 1920s a new range of sporrans had evolved, a plain leather pocket for day wear, and a sealskin pocket with semicircular silver cantle for evening wear (the cantle being shaped like the cantle of 18th century sporrans, but being a decorative plate only).

So yes these 20th century sporrans are a more recent development, but they're "traditional" in the sense that they evolved from earlier sporrans styles.

[Jordan]

Ill chip in here with my tuppence.

I currently only own three sporran’s which manage to do me fine. One SWK nylon cargo sporran, one black leather "day" sporran and one black rabbit dress sporran with silver coloured cantle (got it from eBay so it’s not fantastic but it looks ok!).
The SWK is my go to sporran the one I wear 95% of the time, I’m out and about in a kilt.
The leather one I feel is a bit more formal and while I could (should) wear it more I tend to keep it for when I’m going out and I’m wearing a shirt, Not necessarily formal just an open necked shirt or shirt and tie.
Any time when I’m wearing a jacket I find myself dusting off the Rabbit sporran as I find it to look smarter even though it can’t hold much.

I would love a big horse hair sporran which I could wear for any situation as long as it would actually hold things there’s no point in having one if it only has a little pouch in it, and possibly a Thorrofin also.

[Micric]

Firstly I must thank everyone for contributing in such a kind and generous manner!

Thanks to OC Richard for the photos of the catalogues,...Wonderful!

M.O R,

Thank you too, and would it be possible for you to show a picture of your brass cantled leather sporran?

The simple advice, "Brown/Brass =daytime, & fur/silver evening" has been noted.

I undertood these basic rules, but was ignorant of the fact that to be day-wear, a fur sporran should be full mask configurtaion.
I had thought that fur + brass or whatever would be OK for day-wear.

Thank you for putting me right!!

Without this site, I'd travel many miles before I learned all these things!

Thank you All!

R.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Firstly I must thank everyone for contributing in such a kind and generous manner!

Thanks to OC Richard for the photos of the catalogues,...Wonderful!

M.O R,

Thank you too, and would it be possible for you to show a picture of your brass cantled leather sporran?

The simple advice, "Brown/Brass =daytime, & fur/silver evening" has been noted.

I undertood these basic rules, but was ignorant of the fact that to be day-wear, a fur sporran should be full mask configurtaion.
I had thought that fur + brass or whatever would be OK for day-wear.

Thank you for putting me right!!

Without this site, I'd travel many miles before I learned all these things!

Thank you All!

R.

By all means a fur & brass sporran would be acceptable for day wear-- I certainly didn't mean to imply otherwise. There are a couple of photos floating around XMTS of my sporran, both close up and being worn. You can probably find photos if you search under "Greenville Scottish Games", or "brass cantle sporrans".

[Cygnus]

So, here's what I've gathered about sporrans - please correct any aspects that are wrong or add any combination I may have left out.

Brown leather = Daywear
Black Leather = Daywear/Informal eveningwear
Black leather + silver = Daywear/Informal eveningwear
Brown Leather + Brass = Daywear
Fur + Silver = Eveningwear, Formal Eveningwear
Fur + Brass = Daywear/Informal Eveningwear/Eveningwear?
Full Mask = Any occasion


Is that correct?

Obviously there will be exceptions to the above, such as an incredibly ornate and well-worked leather sporran that would work formal wear, but is this list acceptable as a general guide to "sporran appropriateness"?