Curious about the "rules"

[tripleblessed]

A lot depends on your definition of tradition, and your understanding of good
taste, and your typical activities. For me, traditional covers more than just the last hundred years. For many on the forum, it seems to mean what they've gotten used to doing over the last thirty to fifty years. Some, it's clear, learned this from fathers who attended many functions and did a good job of teaching what is expected of a " gentleman". Never mind that proper dress and good manners do not necessarily produce gentlemanly behavior, merely well-dressed, civil, well-spoken folks who may be gentlemen or crass boors and crooks with good connections. Traditionally, highland dress was very individual, with interesting results among those not often at court. Any
combination might be seen, and was, and can be again. Spend a bit of time with Jock's point about being invited back. And a bit of wit and flair for the
timely bon mots will gain forgiveness for some indiscretions. On the other
hand, you may spend a lot of time, all alone, dressed precisely as you please.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Why do these rules, guidelines, whatever you would call them exist?

The rules exist to allow a smooth social transition from one set of life's daily events to another. The greatest social benefit of the rules is that they put the "first timer" at ease by placing him/her on the same visual level as everyone else at the event, thus knocking down at least one social barrier that might prevent one from feeling comfortable at that event.

Is a person sporting a nice well turned out casual set completely out of sorts is he wears a dirk? Ifso why?

Yes, he's "out of sorts", and for exactly the same reason he'd be "out of sorts" if he turned up at a casual luncheon wearing a blue blazer, gray flannel trousers and six-inch Buck hunting knife. Belt knives (and that includes the dirk) are only worn on specific occasions and when engaged in specific activities, kilted or otherwise.

Or is a person under dressed if they attend a white tie affair and neglect a fly plaid or his/her miniatures? Again ifso why?

Far more comments would be passed if one showed up at a white tie event wearing a fly plaid... when plaids are called for (attendance at Court, for example) full plaids are are worn by gentlemen, not fly plaids. The wearing of miniatures medals is, as far as civilians are concerned, optional. So, no, they wouldn't be "under dressed" for the reasons just given.

It appears to me so far that many ideas on what should be worn and when are a matter of past precedent and insomuch are maintained by the simplest of justifications, it's just the way it's always been done.

That's right. And the reason that it's done is that the rules go a long way toward eliminating the possibility of making someone feel uncomfortable-- or unwanted-- at a social event. In other words, the rules are about encouraging social inclusion.

I wonder if it isn't time for an onverhaul on convention?

Why? The conventions of dress work just fine for the vast majority of people. Last Saturday I was at a Tartan Ball in Washington DC. This was a "black tie" event attended by about 250/300 people. All the gentlemen were in black tie-- four or five were in dinner jackets, and one gentleman was in his military uniform-- but no one looked out of place, or uncomfortable in their surroundings. Except for one, poor unfortunate who had decided to wear a black four in hand tie with his dinner jacket. Trendy, I'm sure, but unfortunately he just looked like a guy in a black suit and, being mistaken for a hotel employee, several people approached him asking for directions to the toilets...

Or perhaps an upgrade of the apparatus so to speak since when you look at some highland fashion it often looks like something pulled from antiquity.

Might I suggest, as a Scot, that if individuals do not like the way our traditional Highland attire appears, that they are free to wear some other mode of dress? Despite my fondness for mariachi music and regular attendance at the Mexican National Rodeo, I would never presume to suggest that charros should "upgrade their apparatus" because it it looks like something "pulled from antiquity"; rather, if attending a fiesta, I would respect it for what it is-- an on going extension of their culture, not mine-- and dress with as much attention to tradition and conventional detail as possible. Either that or I'd wear some other mode of attire appropriate to the event.

[gary meakin]

As they say in The House of Lords..."hear hear"

[thescot]

Miniature medals (and full sized medals, too) are quite a separate issue from the other things you mention. Military medals are issued by the military for specific reasons accompanied by a warrant describing the award and the reason for it. Only the person receiving the medal has a right to it, and, I believe, it is basicly illegal to wear them otherwise. (There have been a recent court ruling which may have negated that.)

The "rules" are set by the military, and they are very specfic, so, for this issue at least, there is a definite source and set of rules to answer your original question.

There are other kinds of medals which are not so regulated; masonic, club, etc., can, I suppose we worn any way you like, but when worn i direct opposion to accepted practices for military medals, one would probably be thought a rube.

As to the rest of the issues you mention, they are simply the result of years of practice and fairly common agreement/consensus. There is not a single source, any more than there is anauthoritaive rule book for tuxedoes or blue jeans. The "rules" slowly evolve through time and acceptance and current fashion and "important people's" practices, etc.

One good rule of thumb is this: dress like those who have worn the kilt for years, and you probably won't go wrong. There is a lot of latitude, but being overly experimental generally makes one look foolish among people who know how to wear a kilt.

But then, it's a free world; do as you like. The kilt police do not have arrest powers.

[kiltedwolfman]

being overly experimental generally makes one look foolish among people who know how to wear a kilt

That is a very interesting point and makes me wonder that since what is generally accepted as right and proper is made so primarily because it's been done that way for so long, at what point does something new and unique gain the same acceptance. From most of the comments thus far I can gather that the "rules" are more a genre of popular habits. Habits that have over the years become so engrained that when someone decides to make new habits they are quickly labelled as breaking with tradition, or disrespecting heritage etc. I would argue that every tradition likely started out with quite a stir to the accepted norms of the time, and that it only became a tradition once enough people copied it. In my honest opinion proper highland dress is a product of invention and not evolution and in being so becomes subject to all those unwritten, and unverifiable rules.

The things that make good presentation are hard to argue against, and in themselves leave a massive margin for individual expression. What causes my raised eyebrow is when things get to a formal level and suddenly the "rules" appear. Call it my natural aversion to authority but when someone tells me that certain things are musts, and others are must nots I feel the need to understand why. So far the answer, if you distill it down to it's essence has simply been out of habit. I can accept that. But along with this I also accept that any habit can be changed, and that there is always room for new traditions to be born as long as they are created with respect.

[tripleblessed]

Wearing unearned medals is just WRONG on the face of it. That said, serving
military represent that service and have voluntarily accepted prescribed dress.
Court functions have always had strictly delineated rules and as government functions can require strict adherence.

For me, attempting to enforce the same conventions at all civilian social functions is a step too far. Now, I'm certainly not gonna show up at a black tie event in cutoffs and sandals, but like the OP I tend to bristle a bit at the "It
just isn't done, old boy" line of thinking. It's only not done because if someone's doing it differently, one of us MUST be wrong, and it's not gonna be
me. How about we cut each other some slack? Yes, it should please the eye,
but individual expression is what freedom is about. We just got done honoring those who gave all that society might have a measure of freedom. Why do we so strongly resist someone's attempt to enjoy what was so dearly bought?

[Jock Scot]

The "its just not done old boy" has developed simply because there are not any civilian dress rules and is generally used as a well meaning shot across the bows to warn of "rocks" ahead.

In another life we used to entertain regularly and on a reasonably large scale in private. Our guests were mostly my or my wife's friends, although there were on occasion a shooting party staying overnight. Now if these guests did not conform to the best of their ability, that, by the way, is all that is ASKED for, then they were stretching my friendship, generosity and enjoyment more than a wee tad!They would be imposing their will, desires on me, my wife and other guests in a selfish way and ultimately that really won't do and frankly I have plenty of other friends to invite for my enjoyment in the future.

It is making the effort that counts. One of my friends lost his house and contents due to a fire, but he and his wife made the effort to ring round our friends to borrow the kit that "would do" for our dinner. Now that is consideration and will never be forgotten.

Dinner suits(tux) were new once, white ties were new once, Top hat and tails were new once, the kilt as we know it was new once and so things will evolve , things will come and go all in good time and some things will stand the test of time. However to force the modernising issue is arrogant, inconsiderate, unnecessary and quite correctly in my view "just not done".

[McClef]

The medal issue has been a subject of recent controversy and is a diversion from the original question of this thread.

The OP himself stated:

"I simply want to understand better how the rules of dress ( outside of the military ) can and apparently in some situations must be applied. "

Please keep discussions to the civilian as per his request.

Thanks.

[thescot]

The medal issue has been a subject of recent controversy and is a diversion from the original question of this thread.

The OP himself stated:

"I simply want to understand better how the rules of dress ( outside of the military ) can and apparently in some situations must be applied. "

Please keep discussions to the civilian as per his request.

Thanks.

Good point, well taken. But it was the poster himself who wrote, "The same is said about fly plaids, or miniature medals etc." and it seemed purdent to respond.

[gary meakin]

The "its just not done old boy" has developed simply because there are not any civilian dress rules and is generally used as a well meaning shot across the bows to warn of "rocks" ahead.

In another life we used to entertain regularly and on a reasonably large scale in private. Our guests were mostly my or my wife's friends, although there were on occasion a shooting party staying overnight. Now if these guests did not conform to the best of their ability, that, by the way, is all that is ASKED for, then they were stretching my friendship, generosity and enjoyment more than a wee tad!They would be imposing their will, desires on me, my wife and other guests in a selfish way and ultimately that really won't do and frankly I have plenty of other friends to invite for my enjoyment in the future.

It is making the effort that counts. One of my friends lost his house and contents due to a fire, but he and his wife made the effort to ring round our friends to borrow the kit that "would do" for our dinner. Now that is consideration and will never be forgotten.

Dinner suits(tux) were new once, white ties were new once, Top hat and tails were new once, the kilt as we know it was new once and so things will evolve , things will come and go all in good time and some things will stand the test of time. However to force the issue is arrogant, inconsiderate, unnecessary and quite correctly in my view "just not done".

Thanks Jock.
I've only been on this forum for a short time but I'm starting to realize that by holding off and waiting til I've heard your comments is a good way to learn something.