Curious about the "rules"

[kiltedwolfman]

Some very good posts so far, and I give thanks to those who have posted. I am not asking these things for myself as I do have a habit of dressing decently ( at least to me I do hehe )
I am thinking of times when I've heard; or read, that on this type of occasion, or that type of occasion one MUST wear this, or obversely one MUST NOT wear that. And again that makes me beg the question why? Or why not? For example on another thread there is discussion about wearing a dirk. Many replies have stated quite certainly that there are times is must not be worn, and there are times it is acceptable. The same is said about fly plaids, or miniature medals etc. Why do these rules, guidelines, whatever you would call them exist? Is a person sporting a nice well turned out casual set completely out of sorts is he wears a dirk? Ifso why? Or is a person under dressed if they attend a white tie affair and neglect a fly plaid or his/her miniatures? Again ifso why?
It appears to me so far that many ideas on what should be worn and when are a matter of past precedent and insomuch are maintained by the simplest of justifications, it's just the way it's always been done.
I wonder if it isn't time for an onverhaul on convention? Or perhaps an upgrade of the apparatus so to speak since when you look at some highland fashion it often looks like something pulled from antiquity.

* Disclaimer* I thank everyone for their patience, and thoughtful responces. My goal is active and quality discussion, as well as clarification. There are many a newcomer that certainly enjoy a decent exchange of ideas on topics like this.

[tripleblessed]

A lot depends on your definition of tradition, and your understanding of good
taste, and your typical activities. For me, traditional covers more than just the last hundred years. For many on the forum, it seems to mean what they've gotten used to doing over the last thirty to fifty years. Some, it's clear, learned this from fathers who attended many functions and did a good job of teaching what is expected of a " gentleman". Never mind that proper dress and good manners do not necessarily produce gentlemanly behavior, merely well-dressed, civil, well-spoken folks who may be gentlemen or crass boors and crooks with good connections. Traditionally, highland dress was very individual, with interesting results among those not often at court. Any
combination might be seen, and was, and can be again. Spend a bit of time with Jock's point about being invited back. And a bit of wit and flair for the
timely bon mots will gain forgiveness for some indiscretions. On the other
hand, you may spend a lot of time, all alone, dressed precisely as you please.

[thescot]

Miniature medals (and full sized medals, too) are quite a separate issue from the other things you mention. Military medals are issued by the military for specific reasons accompanied by a warrant describing the award and the reason for it. Only the person receiving the medal has a right to it, and, I believe, it is basicly illegal to wear them otherwise. (There have been a recent court ruling which may have negated that.)

The "rules" are set by the military, and they are very specfic, so, for this issue at least, there is a definite source and set of rules to answer your original question.

There are other kinds of medals which are not so regulated; masonic, club, etc., can, I suppose we worn any way you like, but when worn i direct opposion to accepted practices for military medals, one would probably be thought a rube.

As to the rest of the issues you mention, they are simply the result of years of practice and fairly common agreement/consensus. There is not a single source, any more than there is anauthoritaive rule book for tuxedoes or blue jeans. The "rules" slowly evolve through time and acceptance and current fashion and "important people's" practices, etc.

One good rule of thumb is this: dress like those who have worn the kilt for years, and you probably won't go wrong. There is a lot of latitude, but being overly experimental generally makes one look foolish among people who know how to wear a kilt.

But then, it's a free world; do as you like. The kilt police do not have arrest powers.

[kiltedwolfman]

being overly experimental generally makes one look foolish among people who know how to wear a kilt

That is a very interesting point and makes me wonder that since what is generally accepted as right and proper is made so primarily because it's been done that way for so long, at what point does something new and unique gain the same acceptance. From most of the comments thus far I can gather that the "rules" are more a genre of popular habits. Habits that have over the years become so engrained that when someone decides to make new habits they are quickly labelled as breaking with tradition, or disrespecting heritage etc. I would argue that every tradition likely started out with quite a stir to the accepted norms of the time, and that it only became a tradition once enough people copied it. In my honest opinion proper highland dress is a product of invention and not evolution and in being so becomes subject to all those unwritten, and unverifiable rules.

The things that make good presentation are hard to argue against, and in themselves leave a massive margin for individual expression. What causes my raised eyebrow is when things get to a formal level and suddenly the "rules" appear. Call it my natural aversion to authority but when someone tells me that certain things are musts, and others are must nots I feel the need to understand why. So far the answer, if you distill it down to it's essence has simply been out of habit. I can accept that. But along with this I also accept that any habit can be changed, and that there is always room for new traditions to be born as long as they are created with respect.

[tripleblessed]

Wearing unearned medals is just WRONG on the face of it. That said, serving
military represent that service and have voluntarily accepted prescribed dress.
Court functions have always had strictly delineated rules and as government functions can require strict adherence.

For me, attempting to enforce the same conventions at all civilian social functions is a step too far. Now, I'm certainly not gonna show up at a black tie event in cutoffs and sandals, but like the OP I tend to bristle a bit at the "It
just isn't done, old boy" line of thinking. It's only not done because if someone's doing it differently, one of us MUST be wrong, and it's not gonna be
me. How about we cut each other some slack? Yes, it should please the eye,
but individual expression is what freedom is about. We just got done honoring those who gave all that society might have a measure of freedom. Why do we so strongly resist someone's attempt to enjoy what was so dearly bought?

[Jock Scot]

The "its just not done old boy" has developed simply because there are not any civilian dress rules and is generally used as a well meaning shot across the bows to warn of "rocks" ahead.

In another life we used to entertain regularly and on a reasonably large scale in private. Our guests were mostly my or my wife's friends, although there were on occasion a shooting party staying overnight. Now if these guests did not conform to the best of their ability, that, by the way, is all that is ASKED for, then they were stretching my friendship, generosity and enjoyment more than a wee tad!They would be imposing their will, desires on me, my wife and other guests in a selfish way and ultimately that really won't do and frankly I have plenty of other friends to invite for my enjoyment in the future.

It is making the effort that counts. One of my friends lost his house and contents due to a fire, but he and his wife made the effort to ring round our friends to borrow the kit that "would do" for our dinner. Now that is consideration and will never be forgotten.

Dinner suits(tux) were new once, white ties were new once, Top hat and tails were new once, the kilt as we know it was new once and so things will evolve , things will come and go all in good time and some things will stand the test of time. However to force the modernising issue is arrogant, inconsiderate, unnecessary and quite correctly in my view "just not done".

[McClef]

The medal issue has been a subject of recent controversy and is a diversion from the original question of this thread.

The OP himself stated:

"I simply want to understand better how the rules of dress ( outside of the military ) can and apparently in some situations must be applied. "

Please keep discussions to the civilian as per his request.

Thanks.

[gary meakin]

The "its just not done old boy" has developed simply because there are not any civilian dress rules and is generally used as a well meaning shot across the bows to warn of "rocks" ahead.

In another life we used to entertain regularly and on a reasonably large scale in private. Our guests were mostly my or my wife's friends, although there were on occasion a shooting party staying overnight. Now if these guests did not conform to the best of their ability, that, by the way, is all that is ASKED for, then they were stretching my friendship, generosity and enjoyment more than a wee tad!They would be imposing their will, desires on me, my wife and other guests in a selfish way and ultimately that really won't do and frankly I have plenty of other friends to invite for my enjoyment in the future.

It is making the effort that counts. One of my friends lost his house and contents due to a fire, but he and his wife made the effort to ring round our friends to borrow the kit that "would do" for our dinner. Now that is consideration and will never be forgotten.

Dinner suits(tux) were new once, white ties were new once, Top hat and tails were new once, the kilt as we know it was new once and so things will evolve , things will come and go all in good time and some things will stand the test of time. However to force the issue is arrogant, inconsiderate, unnecessary and quite correctly in my view "just not done".

Thanks Jock.
I've only been on this forum for a short time but I'm starting to realize that by holding off and waiting til I've heard your comments is a good way to learn something.

[thescot]

The medal issue has been a subject of recent controversy and is a diversion from the original question of this thread.

The OP himself stated:

"I simply want to understand better how the rules of dress ( outside of the military ) can and apparently in some situations must be applied. "

Please keep discussions to the civilian as per his request.

Thanks.

Good point, well taken. But it was the poster himself who wrote, "The same is said about fly plaids, or miniature medals etc." and it seemed purdent to respond.

[Chas]

The "its just not done old boy" has developed simply because there are not any civilian dress rules and is generally used as a well meaning shot across the bows to warn of "rocks" ahead.

In another life we used to entertain regularly and on a reasonably large scale in private. Our guests were mostly my or my wife's friends, although there were on occasion a shooting party staying overnight. Now if these guests did not conform to the best of their ability, that, by the way, is all that is ASKED for, then they were stretching my friendship, generosity and enjoyment more than a wee tad!They would be imposing their will, desires on me, my wife and other guests in a selfish way and ultimately that really won't do and frankly I have plenty of other friends to invite for my enjoyment in the future.

It is making the effort that counts. One of my friends lost his house and contents due to a fire, but he and his wife made the effort to ring round our friends to borrow the kit that "would do" for our dinner. Now that is consideration and will never be forgotten.

Dinner suits(tux) were new once, white ties were new once, Top hat and tails were new once, the kilt as we know it was new once and so things will evolve , things will come and go all in good time and some things will stand the test of time. However to force the issue is arrogant, inconsiderate, unnecessary and quite correctly in my view "just not done".

I agree with Jock, but think that the case can be made more forcefully.

If you want to visit the Opera House in Vienna, you will be expected to wear white tie and tails. You choose not to, you don't get in - they have turned 'A Listers' away before for being incorrectly dressed. Individual choice, stand in the rain and listen to the music through closed doors or conform and be part of a glittering event.

If you want to enter the Royal enclosure at Ascot, you will be expected to wear a morning suit and top hat. You choose not to, you don't get in - they regularly get gentlemen to re-tie their neck-ties because they look sloppy.

In every city in every country in the world, there are venues with a dress code. Head covering off in Christian establishments - shoes off in Mosques. On every large building site and many factories there is a requirement for wearing protection and safety clothing.

We are surrounded by dress codes - some self imposed, some imposed by employer, some by spouse or by children, some by religion or by or by other organisation to which we belong, some by the activity in which we are engaged.

Putting on a kilt does not turn anyone into some kind of Über-rebel. For all levels of trousered dress there is a kilting equivalent. A Montrose or Sheriffmuir is accepted at the Opera House, an Argyll with silver buttons and five buttoned waistcoat is accepted at the Royal Enclosure and so it goes through all the standards of dress.

'The Rules', like the laws of the land are there to protect us. If a person breaks or ignores the rules, then best case, they will be excluded or themselves ignored. Worst case, added to that they will be laughed at.

Regards

Chas