The Varieties of Traditional Experience: To Jabot or not To Jabot

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

... I'm not sure how I feel about those. (I am-- MoR) On one hand, they might be pretty fetching on the right individual, but I think you'd have to be quite tall and thin to pull it off properly. Otherwise you run the risk of your head looking like a golf ball on a red satin tee.

It would be helpful to have some pictures of a whole outfit including the Ceangail, not just a close-up of the neck.

The other thing I'd be worried about is that I'd too closely resemble Bela Lugosi's Dracula. (although I see he's wearing white tie as well as the medal.)

For those interested, Lugosi is pictured wearing an-as-yet-to-be-identified order, pendant from a cravat (the wide ribbon around his neck). Most orders are divided into between 3 and 5 classes, with the 5th and 4th classes usually worn pinned to the chest as medals; the 3rd and 2nd class are most usually worn with the badge suspended from a ribbon (called a cravat) worn around the neck. The 1st class of most orders are worn from a broad ribbon (also called a cordon) worn over the shoulder and across the chest with the badge of the order resting on the hip. In the United Kingdom, and those Commonwealth countries which have their own system of orders, decorations, and medals, the 3rd and 2nd class badge is worn pendant from a miniature width ribbon, with the top of the badge approximately 1-inch below the knot of the tie.

In North America both the Canadian and United States governments award insignia that is worn at the neck-- the Order of Canada, and the U.S. Medal of Honor being the two most obvious examples. Non-governmental organizations also award badges of honour which are worn pendant from a cravat-- The Most Meritorious Order of Saint Andrew, which recognizes the achievements of the Scottish diaspora in the United States, being but one example.

The point of all of this is that the wearing of insignia in the manner described above has a significant meaning throughout the whole of society. These badges are the marks of heroism, service to the community, or outstanding achievements in a variety of fields. In short, they are a form of recognition that is to be respected, and not copied and debased as an item of "colorful" dress.

I frankly find the idea of the "ceangail" to be tasteless, and vulgar in the extreme.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I agree; a jabot for white tie. However a Ceangail may work well for a black tie event instead of a bowtie.

Sadly, it won't do for a black tie event at all, simply because it isn't a black bow tie. And even if the invitation said "Black Tie-Decorations", it still wouldn't do because the cravat worn about the neck is worn under the neck tie, not in place of it.

I'm sure the inventor of this thinks he's on to a great thing, and is relying on the adage that "no one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the buying public" to pay off in spades. And if there are enough gum-chewing, mouth breathing guys out there with pudding bowl haircuts, he might just be right.

[Bugbear]

There is a description of a brooch pinned on a jabot in a Katherine Kurtz Adept novel.
Is it common to wear a brooch in the jabot?

[Ancienne Alliance]

There is a description of a brooch pinned on a jabot in a Katherine Kurtz Adept novel.
Is it common to wear a brooch in the jabot?

I do that all the time, and so do these gentlemen.








Best,

Robert

[Bugbear]

All right, I guess people wear brooches in the jabot.

I was trying to figure out exactly what type of neckwear the U.S. founding fathers wore, and found a few descriptions calling the lacy neckwear George Washington wore in some of the portraits of him, a jabot. Others called it a stock or just lace. This was talked about with a black suit, and a velvet suit. I would guess it was formal daywear, of the eighteenth century, of course.

[CMcG]

In my humble opinion the jabot is not black tie equivalent and would be best not worn at black tie events, although I accept that some do. At white tie events then most certainly.

Anyway, on the actual topic, while I think one could wear a jabot with a closed doublet to a black tie affair, it would be somewhat overdressing. The doublet and jabot is white tie attire.

Something I do like (though I can't claim to have worn it) is the cravat with a doublet. And I don't mean the big squishy tie thing that seems so popular among certain UK highland wear suppliers, more like a riding stock.

Here, from Highland Clans, Ltd.:

If the OP doesn't mind, perhaps we can expand the discussion a bit to include general neck tie options between black and white tie.

I thought I read somewhere that a doublet and jabot could be worn for both black and white tie? I agree, however, with Jock Scot and Jersey Lawyer that it seems more appropriate for full white tie.

Now what about that riding stock/Highland cravat? Where does it fit? And how is it different from a white Ascot?

Also, what about a white bow tie instead of a jabot for white tie formal? Is it done and, if so, with what jacket/waistcoat?

I have to admit I'd prefer to not wear a jabot, though I think some people (Ancienne Alliance amongst others) do it magnificently. I'm rather interested in the second half of this thread's title "not to jabot."

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Also, what about a white bow tie instead of a jabot for white tie formal? Is it done and, if so, with what jacket/waistcoat?

A white bow tie and (usually) white waistcoat will transform any open coatee or doublet (Prince Charile, Regulation Doublet, etc.) into white tie attire. Strictly speaking, with civilian attire, a black waistcoat should not be worn with white tie. While tartan and coloured waistcoats may be worn with black tie, the safer option is to stick with the white waistcoat when the invitation stipulates "White tie, Highland attire preferred".

[MacCathmhaoil]

Generally if it is a white tie event I wear a jabot with my Sheriffmuir and if it is a black tie affair I will wear a stock tie in either black or white. I personally feel that the jabot is a bit too formal for a black tie event!

[JSFMACLJR]

Just to throw fuel on the fire...it is perfectly acceptable for black bow ties to be worn with the kilt for white tie events. Has been so for a long, long time!

I believe the wearing of a white bow tie with the kilt is a custom followed by gentlemen from Perthshire. One rarely sees others doing so.

[Bugbear]

If the OP doesn't mind, perhaps we can expand the discussion a bit to include general neck tie options between black and white tie.

I thought I read somewhere that a doublet and jabot could be worn for both black and white tie? I agree, however, with Jock Scot and Jersey Lawyer that it seems more appropriate for full white tie.

Now what about that riding stock/Highland cravat? Where does it fit? And how is it different from a white Ascot?

Also, what about a white bow tie instead of a jabot for white tie formal? Is it done and, if so, with what jacket/waistcoat?

I have to admit I'd prefer to not wear a jabot, though I think some people (Ancienne Alliance amongst others) do it magnificently. I'm rather interested in the second half of this thread's title "not to jabot."

Just to throw fuel on the fire...it is perfectly acceptable for black bow ties to be worn with the kilt for white tie events. Has been so for a long, long time!

I believe the wearing of a white bow tie with the kilt is a custom followed by gentlemen from Perthshire. One rarely sees others doing so.

* raises an eyebrow *