outift advice

**joeydknecht** · 4th January 11, 01:18 PM

so would u say an argyle with waist coat is not formal enough for the opera?...... i was thinkn the PC would be a lil to much for an operayhmmmm.....as for the black kilt, at first i have to admit i was very hesitant in gettn it but when i put it on with the PC and wasit coat i have to say i think its pretty sharp... especially if everyone is in a tux and the kilt is black as well.... as for the ruche tie with 5 button wasit coat.... i think i may get a plain burgandy tie ..... id hate to wear the the PC to tthe opera after i have worn it to a palace ball....any more suggestions now if i wear the pc to the opera yes then i will wear the murray tartan....does anyone have any thoughts on an arglye to an opera ,in box seats, then off to a 5 star restaruant after words? the argyle mind u is navy and not black.... thanks to all the replies so far im taking your comments on board

**Spartan Tartan** · 4th January 11, 01:41 PM

[QUOTE=Tobus;939560This being a United Nations ball, you may run into actual Scotsmen there. Do them proud, and wear the kilt according to their tradition! And besides, people from all other nations who are present will likely recognize the kilt more readily in its original context.[/QUOTE]

I agree. What you describe sounds like a great looking outfit, and not one to understand black vs. white tie all that well myself...However at a UN Ball, I would definitely go with a Tartan Kilt and everything else you describe.

**Tobus** · 4th January 11, 01:51 PM

as for the black kilt, at first i have to admit i was very hesitant in gettn it but when i put it on with the PC and wasit coat i have to say i think its pretty sharp... especially if everyone is in a tux and the kilt is black as well....

This is what I'm talking about. I don't mean to belabor the point, but you are wearing HIGHLAND attire. It doesn't matter what others are wearing. If they are all wearing black tuxedos, it's because they're wearing Saxon attire. There's no reason to try to make your Highland attire match theirs. Rather the opposite! Highland attire should be a tartan kilt with whatever formal kilt-style jacket you think is proper, and, to bastardize the well-known historical phrase by David Farragut, "damn the tuxedos!"

If you just like the way the black kilt looks, that's your choice. I'm just saying that you shouldn't let the boring Saxon styles that others will be wearing influence your decision.

**Jordan** · 4th January 11, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tobus

This is what I'm talking about. I don't mean to belabor the point, but you are wearing HIGHLAND attire. It doesn't matter what others are wearing. If they are all wearing black tuxedos, it's because they're wearing Saxon attire. There's no reason to try to make your Highland attire match theirs. Rather the opposite! Highland attire should be a tartan kilt with whatever formal kilt-style jacket you think is proper, and, to bastardize the well-known historical phrase by David Farragut, "damn the tuxedos!"

If you just like the way the black kilt looks, that's your choice. I'm just saying that you shouldn't let the boring Saxon styles that others will be wearing influence your decision.

I would second this I have a black kilt outfit but I wouldn't really wear it to anything that formal infact most of the time I've worn the jacket I've chosen to forgo the black kilt and wear one of my tartan ones instead.

Jordan

**Lyle1** · 4th January 11, 02:40 PM

As long as you like the black kilt AND recognize that a black kilt is not traditional highland dress, then wear it! For the future, keep your eye out for a more contemporary formal jacket to wear with the black kilt for black tie events. I do not know what men wear to the opera in Vienna, but if you wear the PC with the black kilt on the first night, then the PC with a tartan kilt to the opera, you will still have two distinctly different looks.

Wear what you want and enjoy yourself! I suspect that you will see a wide range of levels of dress at a UN event, except when it is white tie.

**tripleblessed** · 4th January 11, 03:34 PM

I should should probably keep quiet, but you did ask. The black kilt and the ruche tie tie are entirely appropriate if you need something with which to get the fire started. For any other occasion, a regular tie of proper formality.
And for any formal occasion, TARTAN Kilt is the proper equivalent to tux.

That said, WEAR WHAT YOU LIKE. That's how our ancestors did it. Though
if you decide on the black, at least pair it with proper hose. Some of the outfits I wore in 1969 were gorgeously outrageous and avant garde, but in retrospect........... Down the the road you'll wish you had chosen the tartan
kilt and brighter hose.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 4th January 11, 09:37 PM

*****

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 4th January 11, 09:59 PM

I note, as an aside, that several individuals have suggested "wear what you want".

As someone who enjoys a "grace and favour" flat in Vienna (on Goethegasse, inside the Ring, and about 200 meters from the Opera) I would respectfully suggest that the standards of formal dress in Vienna are different (ie: higher) than in the USA.

That said, when attending balls in Vienna I always adhere to the dress as stipulated on the invitation. White Tie means just that-- white tie and tails. Black Tie means a dinner jacket. Unless the invitation specifically states "Highland Attire" I don't wear a kilt. (In 35 years I have never received an invitation to a ball in Austria that said "White Tie, Highland Attire".)

As far as going to the opera is concerned... opening night is always black tie, as is the last night. In between it's a dark suit.

Personally, I would no more wear Highland attire to a ball in Vienna than I would wear lederhosen and trachen to a ball in Oban.

Even if I was advised to "wear what you want", I just wouldn't do it.

**Zardoz** · 4th January 11, 10:53 PM

Joeydknecht,
Since you are talking about a U.N. event, you more than likely will see people there in various ethnic attire. The invites for UN Association Balls I've attended in the past said 'Black-tie or national costume' if I recall.
I would wear your tartan though, the all black look is either too Hollywood, or too conformist

not sure which! I also see you mentioned a belt buckle along with the PC and waistcoat? As is often discussed here, one generally doesn't wear them both. Have fun!

**Jock Scot** · 5th January 11, 12:43 AM

I am going to get shot for speaking heresy here! M o R is so right, although Zardoz does raise a good point that being a UN event there may be a "national attire" option.Although if you are a non Scot it is stretching your credibility more than somewhat if you are going to wear the kilt to an event such as these.

Now I am very proud of my national attire but there are times when wearing it is not appropriate. It is up to our host to decide what is to be worn and it is not up to the guest to adjust it, that is just plain arrogant and selfish. If you don't own the correct attire, then beg, borrow,or, hire it----I expect many will----and if you don't have it to hand and if you can't comply with the host's wishes then --------stay at home!