Presentation to Girl Scouts, for your review.

[Paul Henry]

It seems very long for young children to keep their attention. I can understand wanting to do a good history/story/account, but there is a lot of information for young minds.
There are things that I don't completely agree with, or feel that they could be related differently at least, the first one being.... Scotland isn't an island, part of one of course, but no one could find Scotland on an atlas by looking for an island!

I know that it must have taken a lot of work to get all this together, but with a bit of careful editing I'm sure it would go down very well.

[MacBean]

I love that you're doing this...sounds like fun. I've not read it all yet, but right off the bat, I'd say that the section on Picts and Celts is probably not factual. I've seen several Pictish or earlier memorials, some with such detail, that it's hard not to consider them pictorial if not actual writing. I'm also not sure that the Picts went south and the Celts north, as the Pictish burial grounds are abundant just SE of Inverness. I know the reality is always more complicated... Might the Scots coming from Ireland be worth including?

[O'Callaghan]

I love that you're doing this...sounds like fun. I've not read it all yet, but right off the bat, I'd say that the section on Picts and Celts is probably not factual. I've seen several Pictish or earlier memorials, some with such detail, that it's hard not to consider them pictorial if not actual writing. I'm also not sure that the Picts went south and the Celts north, as the Pictish burial grounds are abundant just SE of Inverness. I know the reality is always more complicated... Might the Scots coming from Ireland be worth including?

The Scots were the Gaels, which he mentionned, or did you mean he forgot to say they were from Ireland? I think it was OK to leave that out, to keep it simple.

[ohiopiper]

Thanks for the corrections and catches.

I clearly didn't pay attention in geography class, I was sure Scotland was an island unto itself, right off the coast of England. After double checking an actual atlas, I was sure I was wrong.

As for Bannockburn/Stirling, I had both in the original draft and apparently deleted portions of both and came up with the wrong person at the wrong place.

I'll re-write the language section to say that the languages aren't official languages.

And the history part may well be improved with brevity. Much of the "research" I did was online, but I tried to stick with seemingly reputable sources. Even then I came up with sometimes conflicting accouts. Since I don't have time to read and distill any really authoratiative work on it, I'll probably go with the basic outline of what EagleJCS posted in his correction of my hodge-podge of stuff.

As for Irn-Bru, I must claim complete ignorance. I've never actually drank it, merely read others opinions.

Corrections will be made. Brevity will be strictly enforced and my explanation of Irn-Bru will be ammended.

Thank you all for your (further) contributions.

[Lallans]

If you get the Irn Bru right, everything else will follow! Break a leg!

EDIT: On a second reading, I will throw out that Sir Walter Scott is best known for his historical fiction, and girls might be interested in the fact that ghillie brogues are made full of big holes, originally to allow the plentiful Scottish ground water to run out with a minimum of 'squishing'.

[EagleJCS]

Pretty good overall. Probably a bit long for 7-to-8-year-olds. I know most of the Scouts I work with (11-18) would get bored after about 10 minutes. The presentation you've outlined would probably work better with Girl Scout Seniors.

In the past couple of years I've given a brief 10 minute talk to a couple of Cub Scout dens - about the same age as you're expecting - and just covered the basics of what I was wearing and how the pipes worked.

If you continue with what you have, coupla small points to consider:

• The island is Britain. The northern part is Scotland, south of Scotland lies England and Wales.
  
  
• The history of Scotland basically starts with the Romans' encounters with the Pict(i) - there hasn't been much found written before then. Along with the Picts of Northern Scotland (north of the Firth of Clyde) were the Britons, forming several Roman-influenced 'kingdoms' from the Clyde down to the Tweed. Three invasions brought: the Scots (or Scot(t)i, more specifically the Dal Riatans) from Ireland - eventually supplanting the Picts; the Anglo-Saxons from the Low Countries of northern Europe - eventually moving into the Borders area; and the Vikings from Scandinavia (modern Norway, Sweden and Denmark) - settling in the Orkneys, Shetlands and the northern coast of the island of Britain. (I checked a variety of sources for Scottish history to dertermine this info, and they all agreed with this generalization.)
  
  
• Modern usage of the term 'Gael' usually refers to anyone speaking one of the Gaelic languages. 'Celt' or 'Celtic' is usually a cultural descriptor referring to a much larger group of people from across Europe - it depends on what source you're using as to how broad a descriptor it becomes.By that token, all Gaels are Celts, but not all Celts are Gaels. Not everyone agrees with how to use the term 'Celt' these days.
  
  
• The Gaelic language comes in (mainly) three forms - Irish, Manx and Scottish. To differentiate, most people refer to Irish as Gaelic or 'Gaeilge', Manx as Manx or 'Gaelg', and Scottish as Scots Gaelic or 'Gàidhlig' (and sometimes 'Erse', though that's sometimes taken as a pejorative). 'Scots' is a different language altogether, more closely related to English, and is often referred to as 'Lallans' or 'Broad Scots'.
  
  
• The United Kingdom does not have any official languages.

[O'Callaghan]

Pretty good overall. Probably a bit long for 7-to-8-year-olds. I know most of the Scouts I work with (11-18) would get bored after about 10 minutes. The presentation you've outlined would probably work better with Girl Scout Seniors.

In the past couple of years I've given a brief 10 minute talk to a couple of Cub Scout dens - about the same age as you're expecting - and just covered the basics of what I was wearing and how the pipes worked.

If you continue with what you have, coupla small points to consider:

• The island is Britain. The northern part is Scotland, south of Scotland lies England and Wales.
  
  
• The history of Scotland basically starts with the Romans' encounters with the Pict(i) - there hasn't been much found written before then. Along with the Picts of Northern Scotland (north of the Firth of Clyde) were the Britons, forming several Roman-influenced 'kingdoms' from the Clyde down to the Tweed. Three invasions brought: the Scots (or Scot(t)i, more specifically the Dal Riatans) from Ireland - eventually supplanting the Picts; the Anglo-Saxons from the Low Countries of northern Europe - eventually moving into the Borders area; and the Vikings from Scandinavia (modern Norway, Sweden and Denmark) - settling in the Orkneys, Shetlands and the northern coast of the island of Britain. (I checked a variety of sources for Scottish history to dertermine this info, and they all agreed with this generalization.)
  
  
• Modern usage of the term 'Gael' usually refers to anyone speaking one of the Gaelic languages. 'Celt' or 'Celtic' is usually a cultural descriptor referring to a much larger group of people from across Europe - it depends on what source you're using as to how broad a descriptor it becomes.By that token, all Gaels are Celts, but not all Celts are Gaels. Not everyone agrees with how to use the term 'Celt' these days.
  
  
• The Gaelic language comes in (mainly) three forms - Irish, Manx and Scottish. To differentiate, most people refer to Irish as Gaelic or 'Gaeilge', Manx as Manx or 'Gaelg', and Scottish as Scots Gaelic or 'Gàidhlig' (and sometimes 'Erse', though that's sometimes taken as a pejorative). 'Scots' is a different language altogether, more closely related to English, and is often referred to as 'Lallans' or 'Broad Scots'.
  
  
• The United Kingdom does not have any official languages.

All true, but a bit complicated for the kids.

Of course where you say Dal Riada or Scotii, those were the Gaels he spoke of, Dal Riada being the particular one of the five tribes of Irish Gaels that they belonged to, and Scotii being their Roman name. Gaels is probably enough info for the kids, unless they ask questions.

Where he says English rather than Anglo-Saxons I think there is a case for that too, in the interests of keeping it relatively simple.

I do think there's a problem where he uses Celts as someone separate from the Gaels, because they were Celts too. Perhaps he should have said Britons instead of Celts? It's not perfect, as Briton has other meanings too, but he is trying to keep it simple. I don't think you would call them Brythonic Celts for that age group.

[Santa Wally]

Sorry to come down on all your research and hard work.

But it is WAY too long, and complex. As I was reading it, I thought each section was a separate presentation. KEEP IT SIMPLE. Second graders can't be involved with a LECTURE, which is how it sounds as I read it.

Just introduce them to the traditional dress: kilts, ghillies, etc.

Also the bagpipes, as many of them would be somewhat familiar them already and would be interested in your demonstration. I'd suggest you only play one song after shortening up the history behind the bagpipes. Don't get too technical.

Expect the attention span of second graders to last 30 minutes at best. If you plan about 20 minutes, when you actually do it, you'll find it will be closer to 30 minutes. As you talk, they way want to ask questions which will take time as well as the chanter and bagpipe demo.

All the history, languages, invasions, etc would be just too dry to hold their attention. The Scottish clothing and bagpipes will hold their attention and they will learn and retain the most with just those 2 topics. My sister, an elementary media specialist/librarian, says that after 20 minutes of a story, second graders are ready for the story to end. The bagpipes will hold them to the end of your presentation.

If they want more about the history of Scotland, hold it for another day and time. My sister and I feel you were overly ambitious.

Have fun and they'll have fun. Good luck.

[Tobus]

The island is Britain. The northern part is Scotland, south of Scotland lies England and Wales.

Actually, I would prefer to hear it the way he had it originally written. The island is Scotland, and then there's a vague southern part that nobody need concern themselves with.

[Tony]

All you need to know about Irn Bru is it's Made in Scotland.
From girders.



If you see the weans flagging, blast em with the pipes.
Good luck!