Pleating to Horizontal ?!

**Tobus** · 28th January 11, 12:56 PM

I actually requested my kilt to be pleated this way on purpose. Not necessarily to show off horizontal stripes, but so that there would be more 'flash' of color when the pleats swish. I wanted to see more of the blue color on the pleats when standing, and only see a lot of green when walking.

Yes, some call it the 'lawnchair effect', but I don't think it looks bad.

**mookien** · 28th January 11, 01:09 PM

Pay no attention to jose995. He's an impostor of the 1st order! ;-)

xman: Thanks. I get the point about horizontal lines - they make you appear "broader in the beam", so to speak.

Wizard of BC: Thanks for the detailed and thorough reply, especially the pictures. It has been most helpful. The light bulb has come on, but I need to think about it a bit more to fully appreciate the differences.

The conclusion I am drawing is that visual, vertical elements present in the pleating reduce the "broad-beam" effect produced by the inevitable horizontal elements. Even your "Isle of Skye" kilt, which I must say is most handsome, has vertical visual elements - the knife edges of the pleats themselves.

Please let me know if I'm incorrect about any of this.

**mookien** · 28th January 11, 01:20 PM

David,

Thanks for the pointer to the older thread on this subject, but I'm glad I didn't see it before I read the reply from Wizard of BC. I would have been even more confused!

Incidentally, I had to guess at the shipping charge. Let me know if it's insufficient.

**mookien** · 28th January 11, 01:35 PM

Tobus: I like the horizontal "lawn-chair" effect, too, despite its presumed, and even perceived, effect on the extent of the nether regions. Also, I have seen the flash you described on kilts in which the wearer was briskly walking. It looks very dynamic and colorful.

My kilt is pleated to a vertical white stripe, and has lots of broad horizontal bands that dominate the backside view. It looks good to me. I would post a picture, but I just read how to do it. I need to find a web server on which to store my photos.

**Barb T** · 28th January 11, 03:13 PM

I have no idea why the original item that you read said that it is a method not to be tackled by novice kiltmakers. It is actually THE EASIEST way to pleat a kilt. Because a pleat is all one color, the only precision you have to worry about is lining up the horizontal stripes. There's nothing at all to worry about in the pleat itself - no central element to keep centered, no edge stripe to keep on an edge. And layout is really easy. When I have a novice kiltmaker, and the tartan is appropriate, I commonly suggest doig a first kilt this way because it is so easy.

This kind of pleating works best with a tartan that isn't too "stripey" and has subdued color differences. For those tartans, it really doesn't make someone look broad in the beam. Here's an example with the Ancient Douglas:

**RockyR** · 28th January 11, 05:10 PM

Steve (and others)... I coined that term when a customer insisted I make a kilt to the 'no stripe' about 6 years ago. I REALLY did not like how it came out. To my eye, it had the look of a 1970's metal lawn / beach chair with the wide plastic multi stripe bands. I said to Kelly "this kilt is what I call the 'lawn chair effect'". She heartily agreed and the name stuck (at least around our shop). Have others done it that way? Yes. Is it my personal favorite? No.

Originally Posted by Barb T.

I have no idea why the original item that you read said that it is a method not to be tackled by novice kiltmakers. It is actually THE EASIEST way to pleat a kilt. Because a pleat is all one color, the only precision you have to worry about is lining up the horizontal stripes. There's nothing at all to worry about in the pleat itself - no central element to keep centered, no edge stripe to keep on an edge. And layout is really easy.

I agree 100%. That was the EXACT SAME thought that ran through my head as I read that initial post. It's so easy to line up, it's almost cheating!

**The Wizard of BC** · 28th January 11, 05:49 PM

Um, Barb, Rocky,,,,,I don't mean to argue with you guys but should we not be trying to convince everyone how incredibly hard it would be to do a kilt to no stripe.

How hard? Well for starters there are no pre-printed lines to follow. We actually have to measure.

So I think we should all charge extra just because it is so hard. We could call it the "No Stripe Tax".

**Barb T** · 28th January 11, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

Um, Barb, Rocky,,,,,I don't mean to argue with you guys but should we not be trying to convince everyone how incredibly hard it would be to do a kilt to no stripe.

How hard? Well for starters there are no pre-printed lines to follow. We actually have to measure.

So I think we should all charge extra just because it is so hard. We could call it the "No Stripe Tax".

Hahahahaha...my bad. Of COURSE we should say that pleating to the no stripe is incredibly difficult. We could make a lot more money, couldn't we???

**mookien** · 28th January 11, 04:26 PM

Barb T.: Thanks for your comments. They make sense and help me understand pleating a bit more, but I'm not about to get between Drs. Tewksbury and Fiddes in a kilt-making discussion. :-)

That's a beautiful Douglas kilt (the Clan of my family, by the way) and makes obvious what you write about "subdued color differences" and non-stripeyness. My brother has an Ancient Douglas and I'll be sure to point him to your post.

**Brian K** · 16th February 11, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by mookien

Barb T.: Thanks for your comments. They make sense and help me understand pleating a bit more, but I'm not about to get between Drs. Tewksbury and Fiddes in a kilt-making discussion. :-)

That's a beautiful Douglas kilt (the Clan of my family, by the way) and makes obvious what you write about "subdued color differences" and non-stripeyness. My brother has an Ancient Douglas and I'll be sure to point him to your post.

It's entirely possible that Barb and Nick are both correct, but just coming at the problem from two different angles.

The Douglas example Barb showed did look good because it minimizes the "lawn chair effect." The subtle difference between the blue and green is probably the principal reason it is pleasing rather than jarring. It seems to me that when Nick referred to not asking a novice to do this he possibly meant that an experienced kilt maker might try to steer you away from such a pleating method if she/he realized it would broaden your beam, so to speak. It also could be that if there is a more pleasing way of pleating to the horizontal or the no stripe than another he/she would make sure you were aware of it.

I have a friend who was a hair dresser before he became an English teacher. He was in great demand and could pretty much charge what he wanted because he really knew what he was doing when it came to hair. If a client asked him do do something he knew would end hideously he would refuse to do it. He would try to steer them towards something else that would give a more pleasing result. He assumed that if you were paying him as much as he charged then he owed it to you to give you the benefit of his wisdom and experience. He lost very few clients this way and most were grateful that he helped prevent them from making a mistake. If I were paying for a garment as expensive as a bespoke kilt I would expect my kilt maker to use similarly good judgment to keep me from making a visually unfortunate mistake.

I'm not trying to climb into Nick's head, but that's how reading his words struck me.

Brian