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26th March 11, 12:37 PM
#1
 Originally Posted by Jock Scot
Interestingly I am not too sure how Clan Chattan stand on this as they are a confederation of individual clans. I suspect their "Cat", which seems to be a common emblem might get you through. No doubt, Rex "thistledown" will chip in with how they do it?
Since you asked, Jock, each of the constituent clans of the super-clan, the Clan Chattan, have their own tartans and each of their chiefs their own crests. Several of the latter (the Mackintoshes, Macphersons, one old branch of the Macgillivrays, the Macbeans and the MacThomases) are cat-based but each is individual to that clan chief. The Clan Chattan chief himself, Mackintosh of Torcastle, also bears the cat as a crest.
Others such as the Tulloch Davidsons, the old Macphails of Inverarnie, and another branch of the Macgillvrays use the stag, the Farquharsons of Invercauld and an old branch of the Shaws use a demi-lion, the Clanay Shaws use a dexter hand with a sword and the Macqueens a wolf.
These are not for mixing and matching. A Macintosh, for example, wears the Macintosh tartan and a belted cat crest in acknowledgment of his/her chief. There is an exception: the Clan Chattan tartan --formerly known as Mackintosh Chief -- is worn by all in the constituency along with the belted crest of their own chief. And it is acceptable to wear your own tartan and the Mackintosh of Torcastle cat crest in its belt.
Although there is a periodic mixing of tartans within a clan (for example a hunting and a red Shaw) there is no combining of tartans outside your clan (Davidson with Mackintosh, for example). Having said that, though, it does happen that Macphails, Macbeans and Shaws wear the Mackintosh tartan -- sometimes in combination with their own -- and that is probably because the tartans of these three clans are relatively new and are all based on the quite old Mackintosh.
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26th March 11, 05:43 PM
#2
 Originally Posted by ThistleDown
...and the Macqueens a wolf.
...
Rex,
I always thought that the Macqueens' cheifly crest was a kind of cat (an heraldic tyger), not a wolf; though the chiefly arms do prominently feature wolves' heads, so I could be mistaken.
And thank you for your answer on cap badges and tartans for these clans - that is a question I had been meaning to ask for some time!
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27th March 11, 09:34 AM
#3
 Originally Posted by Cygnus
Rex,
I always thought that the Macqueens' cheifly crest was a kind of cat (an heraldic tyger), not a wolf; though the chiefly arms do prominently feature wolves' heads, so I could be mistaken.
And thank you for your answer on cap badges and tartans for these clans - that is a question I had been meaning to ask for some time!
Yes, Corrybrough himself used a tiger as crest and his was the chiefly line of the family. I don't know offhand when arms were acquired by this branch of the MacQueens but, by the mid-18C the estates were so involved that to use the tiger today is a bit "antique". There is no recognised chief in the 21C. The wolf of a cadet branch, that of Polochaig, seems to have been adopted by the remains of the clan by the end of the 18C even though by then the lands had been reassumed by the Mackintoshes. We think that this transference of recognition was an 18C way of selecting a new chief
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27th March 11, 09:36 AM
#4
 Originally Posted by ThistleDown
Yes, Corrybrough himself used a tiger as crest and his was the chiefly line of the family. I don't know offhand when arms were acquired by this branch of the MacQueens but, by the mid-18C the estates were so involved that to use the tiger today is a bit "antique". There is no recognised chief in the 21C. The wolf of a cadet branch, that of Polochaig, seems to have been adopted by the remains of the clan by the end of the 18C even though by then the lands had been reassumed by the Mackintoshes. We think that this transference of recognition was an 18C way of selecting a new chief 
Good to know. Thank you for your always well-informed responses!
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25th March 11, 08:18 AM
#5
 Originally Posted by Biathlonman
I frequently see advice that one should not try to match one's tartan tie to one's kilt - is that an absolute no-no? It looks OK to me - so why is that advice so frequently given?
I've read some people here who say to avoid tartan ties altogether, and I'll admit to preferring a non-tartan tie worn with a kilt, but there's no law forbidding tartan ties mixed with the same tartan kilt. However, as Jock says, it's really easy to go overboard with wearing tartan.
--dbh
When given a choice, most people will choose.
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25th March 11, 12:07 PM
#6
My personal preference is to wear a solid-coloured, regimental, or club tie with a kilt. I usually only wear a tartan tie for those times when I'm not kilted but wish to show my affiliation.
The one exception would be as Jock Scot points out - "It is quite acceptable to wear different tartans of the SAME Clan. My Clan has over a dozen, for example. It is not acceptable to wear tartans of DIFFERENT Clans."
Virginia Commissioner, Elliot Clan Society, USA
Adjutant, 1745 Appin Stewart Regiment
Scottish-American Military Society
US Marine (1970-1999)
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25th March 11, 11:54 PM
#7
 Originally Posted by Biathlonman
my kilt is Campbell of Argyll - which to clan purists is somewhat beyond the pale.
I seem to recall that, on the CCSNA website, it said something about how, if you already had a kilt in the Campbell of Argyll tartan, not to worry about it, but I can no longer seem to find it. Perhaps they figure the message has gotten out by now. (Apparently not, however. Fraser & Kirkbright and the Frugal Corner, for example, only offer the Campbell of Argyll, although they offer the Black Watch in modern colors as well.)
Last edited by Morris at Heathfield; 26th March 11 at 12:02 AM.
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26th March 11, 12:43 AM
#8
In honest ignorance: What's the issue with Campbell of Argyle? I'm not familiar with that concern. Somebody please un-ignorant me.
Rev'd Father Bill White: Mostly retired Parish Priest & former Elementary Headmaster. Lover of God, dogs, most people, joy, tradition, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair with solid Welsh and other heritage.
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26th March 11, 01:49 AM
#9
 Originally Posted by Father Bill
In honest ignorance: What's the issue with Campbell of Argyle? I'm not familiar with that concern. Somebody please un-ignorant me. 
Where do I start! In a nutshell, the Campbells had a happy knack(from their point of view) of usually ending up on the winning side, the Crown usually and were not averse in flaunting their successes. They were rather more adept at using their brains rather than a sword and basically everyone else was jealous of the fact! The Campbells were wrongly blamed for the orchestration of the massacre at Glencoe and on it goes. As with all the clans in those days, matters had the unhappy knack of being ruthlessly dealt with and whilst the Campbells did not often have blood on their hands, they were often responsible and for whose benifit?-----their own.
" Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.
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26th March 11, 03:38 AM
#10
Just to bring us back to my original question - what do the style guys think of the idea of kilt in one my clan's tartan and hose in another of the same clan's tartan. We should not get into clan v. clan history here - all is (mostly) forgiven and the subject is best dealt with in another forum.
Campbell of Argyll is not on a list authorized by a previous chief, by the way. It is like a Black Watch with white and yellow overstripes - or a Gordon with the addition of white to the yellow. Campbell is like a Black Watch in lighter hues. Was worn by the A&S until several years ago until they switched to the darker version worn in today's RRofS.
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