true tartan hose (not diced+lines)

[room2ndfloor]

Apologies if this is carrying a tangent too far. Yes, I have also been captivated by the stag-head hose. I have charted a trial pattern and devised a working method based on clox. However, it seems best to knit the alternate rows left handed. I expect it to take at least three years to learn that, and another year to get photographs. Patience grasshopper.

Wow! You charted the stag's head pattern? Are you knitting it in intarsia or stranded (carrying the unused color in the back)?

I agree that you'd do best to knit the alternate rows left-handed so that you could see immediately that you are still working in the pattern.

Even Lady Gainsford said in her book that the argyll/tartan hose were very complicated. She gave line by line instructions, but did not chart them. Her shepherd's plaid hose are actually stranded.

The stranding method makes the hose double-thick, double-warm, double-heavy. People often do not understand that "those strings in the back" are a necessary part of the pattern. They get careless when putting the hose on and snag toenails on the strands.

[room2ndfloor]

Here's another thought. In the olde days- the very olde days- hose were made from tartan- literally. Not knitted to look like tartan, but were sewn from the same tartan as the kilt. Why not buy a couple yards of tartan and have a tailor sew you a pair? You get true tartan hose at the same price as knitted Argyle hose. Or if you have it done in PV, instead of wool tartan, it saves you even more.

Knitting is naturally stretchy and wovens are more firm. Sewing hose from tartan would be, in my opinion, a game not worth the candle. You may get get something to cover your legs and feet, but how is it going to stay in place as you walk and flex your foot and leg? I have seen pictures of these woven leg coverings; they appeared to be held in place by sinew-lacings all up the leg. That would dig into the flesh wickedly after a couple of hours' walking.

There's a reason these argyll patterned hose are rare and expensive. They are devilishly difficult to make.

[Cygnus]

Here's another thought. In the olde days- the very olde days- hose were made from tartan- literally. Not knitted to look like tartan, but were sewn from the same tartan as the kilt. Why not buy a couple yards of tartan and have a tailor sew you a pair? You get true tartan hose at the same price as knitted Argyle hose. Or if you have it done in PV, instead of wool tartan, it saves you even more.

I considered it, Nighthawk, but I feel the lack of "springiness" in the worsted wool cloth wouldn't feel or look quite right. I'm also concerned they'd look a bit too much like a reenactor's costume rather than modern evening wear. (I don't have anything at all against reenactors, quite the opposite; I simply feel that some elements of the more historical costume would look out of place at a modern black-tie event.)

[Cowher]

I know that Skye highland outfitters has custom hose. They are doing a kilt for me now and did a really nice kilt for my drum major so i know they do great work. Plus Josh is a really good guy. Give him a call and see if he can help you.
http://www.skyehighlandoutfitters.co...ection%21.html

[Nighthawk]

I considered it, Nighthawk, but I feel the lack of "springiness" in the worsted wool cloth wouldn't feel or look quite right. I'm also concerned they'd look a bit too much like a reenactor's costume rather than modern evening wear. (I don't have anything at all against reenactors, quite the opposite; I simply feel that some elements of the more historical costume would look out of place at a modern black-tie event.)

Yeah, you're probably right about that! Being a reenactor, that never even occurred to me! It just kinda seems normal in my mind...

Knitting is naturally stretchy and wovens are more firm. Sewing hose from tartan would be, in my opinion, a game not worth the candle. You may get get something to cover your legs and feet, but how is it going to stay in place as you walk and flex your foot and leg? I have seen pictures of these woven leg coverings; they appeared to be held in place by sinew-lacings all up the leg. That would dig into the flesh wickedly after a couple of hours' walking.

There's a reason these argyll patterned hose are rare and expensive. They are devilishly difficult to make.

First off, you simply use tied garters; not the elastic ones that are so common today. The tied ones, I've found, are much more comfortable, anyway! Second, if the hose are made correctly, they're actually really comfortable. I had a pair once that I wore out. I need to make another. You're right about the lack of stretch, though. The sewn hose do need to be a little loose, and not skin tight like we're used to in modern woven hose.

[KiltedGirl]

Non-stretch kilt hose wouldn't be all that different from non-stretch nylons, and I wear those regularly. You need garters to hold both up, they are seamed to match the curve of the foot and calf. My stockings are very comfortable, I'd imagine kilt hose wouldn't be any different.

On the other hand, if anyone is looking for custom kilt hose, I can ask my friend how much she would charge. She is making hose for my (future) husband to wear at our wedding.

[macwilkin]

I considered it, Nighthawk, but I feel the lack of "springiness" in the worsted wool cloth wouldn't feel or look quite right. I'm also concerned they'd look a bit too much like a reenactor's costume rather than modern evening wear. (I don't have anything at all against reenactors, quite the opposite; I simply feel that some elements of the more historical costume would look out of place at a modern black-tie event.)

Hear, hear.

T.

[Pleater]

The cloth ones are cut on the bias, which makes a bit difference to how the fabric feels - it also introduces elasticity.

Dressmaking on the bias is an interesting experience and can result in garments several sizes too small as the dimensions when flat are not those of the garment when worn or hung up. This means that cloth stockings can be put on and feel loose but when pulled up and secured they narrow to the shape of the leg. To get a close fitting fabric sock it would probably be easiest to use concealed zips.

The easiest way to knit a fancy colour pattern in stockinet would be to use the intarsia carriage or function of a knitting machine, make the leg and top of the foot strip on the machine and then sew up the seam and create the foot hand knitting using double pointed needles, and to make a fancy outside part for the top of the leg if wanted. There would not be any floats then.

I have made a punchcard pattern to knit a four colour argyle, two colours of diamond and two colours of lines, in the jacquard technique, which means that it is knitted with a ribber and has no floats on the back.

The technique is usually restricted to four colours as most colour changers can only hold four yarns, though it is possible to work with five as long as you concentrate.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Bugbear]

This means that cloth stockings can be put on and feel loose but when pulled up and secured they narrow to the shape of the leg. To get a close fitting fabric sock it would probably be easiest to use concealed zips.

That's an interesting idea, Pleater. I had tried to think up a way that drawstring/hidden lacing could be used in the ankle area keeping them from being baggy hose, since there is already a seam there in the first place.

[OC Richard]

On the topic of 18th century hose made from woven tartan yardage, I made a pair for myself many years ago to wear at the Renaissance Faire.

I used the pattern in Sketchbook 76.

I was surprised by 1) how easy they were to make 2) how well they fit and 3) how comfortable they were.

I used thick slightly fuzzy wool in a simple brown and black plaid, so that the resulting hose look like diced hose.

Held up with wool braid garters.