hodden grey

**OC Richard** · 18th June 11, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by chrisupyonder

Lovely! I'd not seen their Mess Dress before.

Here's the PM of the London Scottish

and the pipe band of the Toronto Scottish

Note the blue fringe to the kilts, not visible in the photos above of the London Scottish due to the camera angle.

**Pleater** · 18th June 11, 04:30 AM

It looks to be about the same colour as young Herdwick sheep - they change colour as they get older, losing the redness and becoming greyer.

The shepherds used to colour the rams with powdered red ochre so they could see where they were amongst the grey ewes. And presumably where they had been......

Using the lambswool would probably give the reddest hue, and with the Herdwick being a mountain breed the grey wool makes a fabric that is close kin to sandpaper.

Now all you need to find is someone who keeps rare breeds of sheep, a spinner and a weaver.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

**madmacs** · 18th June 11, 10:12 AM

Looks kind of like this one that just ended on ebay... Would have been tempted if it was my size...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...rU%252Bp8%253D

**creagdhubh** · 18th June 11, 10:19 AM

In reference to one of the photos that Richard posted, "PM of the London Scottish", featured in that particular photo is P/M Christopher Macpherson. Chris is a staunch Monarchist, former personal piper to the late Queen Mother, and great supporter of the Clan Macpherson Association, specifically through the England and Wales branch.

Below are other photos, in which I took of him, whilst piping at a Clan Macpherson, Burns' Night celebration in London. There is also a link to the Clan Macpherson online museum, which houses an area dedicated to him and his extraordinary career. He is a true gentleman and a superb piper.

http://www.sonasmor.net/067Ld.PMChris.html

**figheadair** · 19th June 11, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by chrisupyonder

It is also referred to as the Royal Tartan because only two organizations in the world are allowed to wear it, and only with explicit permission by the Queen. The two organizations are The Toronto Scottish Regiment (Toronto, Canada), and The London Scottish Regiment - A Company, The London Regiment (London, England).

http://tsrpd.com/faq.html

Chris.

Notwithstanding what the Toronto Scottish Regiment site says, I've never heard of this 'tweed' referred to as the Royal Tartan and there is no official, so far as I known, pronouncement that precludes its use by anyone. As the Queen doesn't own it then she can't control it even should she wish to.

And of course the London Scottish Regiment no longer exits in its own right.

**OC Richard** · 22nd June 11, 03:19 AM

BTW several years ago I got into a discussion with an American guy who knew a bit about Scottish military uniforms who claimed that Scottish Highland regiments were issued Olive Drab kilts during WWI, due to a shortage of tartan.

(American English "olive drab" is equivalent to British English "khaki". AE "khaki" is BE "light khaki". Makes discussions of uniform colours go round in circles sometimes.)

I told him I wouldn't believe it until I saw some sort of evidence.

Well he pulled out a load of photos of The London Scottish, black & white photos. I tried to explain Hodden Grey to him. I don't think he believed a word of it.

**macwilkin** · 22nd June 11, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

BTW several years ago I got into a discussion with an American guy who knew a bit about Scottish military uniforms who claimed that Scottish Highland regiments were issued Olive Drab kilts during WWI, due to a shortage of tartan.

(American English "olive drab" is equivalent to British English "khaki". AE "khaki" is BE "light khaki". Makes discussions of uniform colours go round in circles sometimes.)

I told him I wouldn't believe it until I saw some sort of evidence.

Well he pulled out a load of photos of The London Scottish, black & white photos. I tried to explain Hodden Grey to him. I don't think he believed a word of it.

There is, however, a "khaki tartan" that one battalion of the Black Watch of Canada was issued during the First World War that is featured in Mike Chappell's book on Canadian Army uniforms. I have attempted to contact Mr. Chappell, a former RSM with the Wessex Regiment, via Osprey Publishing, to see what the source is on this particular ad hoc tartan, but I haven't had any luck.

T.

**macwilkin** · 22nd June 11, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by figheadair

Notwithstanding what the Toronto Scottish Regiment site says, I've never heard of this 'tweed' referred to as the Royal Tartan and there is no official, so far as I known, pronouncement that precludes its use by anyone. As the Queen doesn't own it then she can't control it even should she wish to.

And of course the London Scottish Regiment no longer exits in its own right.

The London Scottish is now A Company of the London Regiment.

T.

**figheadair** · 22nd June 11, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

The London Scottish is now A Company of the London Regiment.

T.

Hence my comment about the Regiment no longer existing.

**Joshua** · 22nd June 11, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

BTW several years ago I got into a discussion with an American guy who knew a bit about Scottish military uniforms who claimed that Scottish Highland regiments were issued Olive Drab kilts during WWI, due to a shortage of tartan.

(American English "olive drab" is equivalent to British English "khaki". AE "khaki" is BE "light khaki". Makes discussions of uniform colours go round in circles sometimes.)

I told him I wouldn't believe it until I saw some sort of evidence.

Well he pulled out a load of photos of The London Scottish, black & white photos. I tried to explain Hodden Grey to him. I don't think he believed a word of it.

There were also aprons for kilts used in WW1 that appear (by pictures I've seen) to be the same as their standard uniform color... a browned khaki.